[NFB-Braille-Discussion] reading materials for teaching braille on the NLS Ereader

Sat Mar 25 21:03:38 UTC 2023

Mike,

I learned the braille alphabet at twelve, learned braille math at
fifteen, learned all of the contractions in my early twenties, and
barely touched braille until 29. I started by having to break the
contractions down into their component parts. It took forever,
required tons of scrubbing, and was neurologically exhausting.

I had to read a couple of middle grade novels at the speed of dark
before I was comfortable with the contractions. Even still, I struggle
with groupings like 'achieve,' 'instead,' or 'munchkin.' My brain
doesn't like diagonal contractions sitting next to each other with
varying amounts of space. Those make me want to scrub repeatedly to be
sure I have the dot positions correct.

What I'm practicing now is refusing to go back unless I truly don't
understand what I just read. I didn't test myself, but I honestly
think my speed almost doubled by doing that alone. I flew through a
couple of pages and, as long as I didn't go so fast that things
blurred, I was probably reading at 70 or eighty words a minute. Not
great, but much more comfortable than 40.

Sanho

On 3/25/23, Debbie Gabe via NFB-Braille-Discussion
<nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> Every one learns differently. Don't worry about it. However you learn best
> is good.  I am 72, a little older than you. I can now recognize words or wrd
> parts by feeling the "picture" the braille dots make under my fingers.
> Consider the word ice. The dots go up, plateau, then go down. The
> contraction for "the" looks like a number "6" to me and I recognize it
> inside of longer words all the time. But a few I cannot do that yet. Give
> yourself time and just practice.
>
> Remember when you were a kid or your own kids were learning to read print,
> the teachers gave them words to memorize and learn as chunks, rather than
> sounding them out? Like the word "the". We did that in print and now you're
> are beginning to do that in braille also.
>
> Just relax and keep practicing.
> debbie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On
> Behalf Of Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 7:45 AM
> To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mike Jolls <mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] reading materials for teaching braille
> on the NLS Ereader
>
> Cindy Lou
>
> Sorry about that … you’re right ER is 1 2 4 5 6 … I did a Q.
>
> The reason I made my comments is because I think back on how I was taught.
> I came to braille as a 50 year old.  I already had plenty of years of
> reading print before my vision started to go down.  So I was very familiar
> with the visual look of print and recognizing it.  When I was learning
> Braille, I think … maybe … I was sort of a decoder … I saw how the Braille
> symbols would degrade back to print spelling patterns I already knew.  I
> totally got the concept of contractions and why we use them … for space
> conservation.  But for the word “course” for example .. I would end up
> spelling it in my head as I was trying to read it.  So if I read the Braille
> word …“c” “ou” “r” “s” “e” … I would first recognize the letters, and then
> would put it together mentally and get the word.  I THINK .. can’t be
> totally sure .. I was making the Braille degrade to print.  That’s really
> hard to be certain about, but I think that’s how it happened for me.  That
> final step of putting the letters together mentally is what I’m maybe
> calling decoding.  I hope that makes sense.  Even today, at age 66, I think
> I still do that.  When I was learning Braille, I didn’t mention this to my
> instructors.
>
> But this brings up a good question.  Would a braille expert call this method
> decoding?  And does that slow a person down, and is it a no-no?  Obviously,
> it takes a millisecond or two to make that mental connection, and if you’re
> doing that with … well let’s say just about every complex word you read …
> I’m wondering if that could put a limit on reading speed?  Of course with
> whole word symbols such as FOR, I just knew them by feel.  They were easy
> and there was no mental translation.  Another question is … would a braille
> reader who learned it from their youth do it differently?  Would they not
> need that extra mental step?  Or, because of years of experience feeling the
> patterns with their fingers, they just know that the above word is “course”,
> and that mental step is so automatic that they don’t have to mentally “sound
> it out” in their head  … so to speak?
>
> There were also times when I’d be passing my fingers over the cells and I
> did not get the symbol the first time.  Sometimes I could get the word
> through context, but other times I wanted to go back and read it again … and
> maybe … I can’t be absolutely sure … I’d scrub.  The wanting to go back
> partially is the perfectionist in me.  And I definitely am one of those
> types.  Not getting it the first time, especially because I’m the
> perfectionist, was very frustrating.  Perhaps that’s where that sheet of
> “G”’s, or “C”’s, or “OU”’s comes into play.  You identify the problem
> symbols, and you build a sheet and drill on it.  Maybe that’s how you get
> past the problem spots. Drilling with a sheet of problem symbols is not
> something I’ve thought about, and it’s not something the people who taught
> me stressed .. that is if it works.
>
> After learning the Braille, I started reading novels.  My assumption was
> that over time and reading a lot of varied material, I’d encounter all the
> symbols.  And recognizing the symbols did get easier to a point and my
> recognition became easier (I currently read about a 4 minute page today
> compared to 25 minute page when I first started reading novels).  But to
> this day at 66, there are times when I still don’t get it the first time.
> And that’s why I was thinking, maybe my fingers/brain just haven’t gotten
> the tactile feel of some symbols really locked in.  Maybe I need to go back
> and drill.  I suppose answering that question is difficult.  I suppose the
> only way to really answer that is to go back to square one, revisit the
> symbols, do some repetition, and see what happens.
>
> I know this all sounds very analytical, and I guess it is.  I’m a problem
> solver, and it’s in my nature (after being a computer programmer for 37
> years) to figure out what’s not working and then try to fix it.
>
> Well, I’ll shut up and let you comment.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>
> From: Cindy Ray via
> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 7:07 AM
> To: NFB Braille Discussion List<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cindy Ray<mailto:cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] reading materials for teaching braille
> on the NLS Ereader
>
> Hi, Mike,
> The touch pages have a line of each character except that inside of each of
> those lines somewhere is something different. So the a line might have a C
> in there somewhere.
> BTW, ER is 1,2,4,5,6. Anyway, my experience is that you are exactly right,
> and I am starting one student with whom I work earlier than the others I had
> started. Some of the cells run close together when you have, say, a dot 1,4
> in the first and dot 1 in the next (cat.)
>
>
> Cindy Lou
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 25, 2023, at 5:07 AM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion
>> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ramona
>>
>> Here’s a question about braille reading, regarding what you said about
>> braille pattern recognition.  For those that say they can’t recognize the
>> dots or do it quickly, could one reason be perhaps because they try to
>> “run” before they can “walk”?  What I mean is, is it possible they may
>> have learned and memorized the dot combinations that make up the various
>> signs (so that they could quickly recall that an ER sign is 1,2,3,4,5) but
>> they don’t have the tactile feel completely mastered?  Perhaps they
>> haven’t spent enough time practicing how all the signs feel?  From a
>> mental perspective, they know the patterns and the rules.  From a tactile
>> perspective, perhaps they’re lacking.  Then when they go to read, and want
>> to read fast, they haven’t mastered everything they need (which includes
>> the tactile part).  Therefore, they try to “run” before they’ve learned to
>> “walk”.  Scrubbing could be a natural outcome of the lack of tactile
>> mastery.  And of course, that slows them down.
>>
>> My question is … is it reasonable to assume that you can’t expect to
>> quickly recognize a sign if you don’t have the tactile feel drilled into
>> your brain?  And if so, would you tell someone who says they can’t do this
>> to go back to the basics and practice tactile recognition at a basic
>> level?  And do it with both hands, because the signs feel different to the
>> left and right hand.  You mentioned having a page of C’s, G’s, and so on.
>> Perhaps that’s why you do this, so you can focus on these signs and drill
>> them into your brain.  Yes, that could be boring, but perhaps it’s a
>> necessary thing.
>>
>> Thoughts on what I’ve said?
>>
>> Mike Jolls
>>
>>
>> Sent from
>> Mail<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
>> go.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ce5fab
>> 4d4df0e4cd35dbd08db2d298b49%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C638153428671635421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ
>> IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3NPxK
>> gEYR5T3muITJkkbmdCUa2tmwsuOTR850ZyU5wE%3D&reserved=0> for Windows
>>
>> From: Ramona via
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2023 9:36 PM
>> To: pauline smith via
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Ramona<mailto:walhoframona at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] reading materials for teaching
>> braille on the NLS Ereader
>>
>> I found that a lot more people think they cannot feel Braille than
>> actually can't. If they really need jumbo, about all they will be reading
>> is what they write themves. I used to have some pages with lines of C's,
>> G's, L's, etc. Then I would add some lines of some words like ace, ax,
>> gag, babe and other carefully chosen words. If people could feel these
>> types of words, often if they would relax and not rub, they would be
>> astonished at what else they could feel. Just some food for thought and
>> experimentation. I did have one student who could only feel dots on
>> plastic pages by using his thumb nail. He was determined to learn enough
>> to keep his check register and a few phone numbers, and he did it, too. I
>> remember some great students!
>> Best,
>> Ramona
>>> On Mar 21, 2023 8:40 AM, pauline smith via NFB-Braille-Discussion
>>> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good MorningeaI agree that using hardcopy braille for teaching is
>>> best. However, a large portion of the adult blind community have
>>> difficulty or cannot feel braille produced on standard paper and will
>>> learn best on electronic devices if and where they are available. If
>>> they are learning from volunteers or in small local programs, there
>>> may not be available equipment for producing materials in the large
>>> dot or jumbo braille that a significant section of this community
>>> would need.Pauline
>>>
>>> On March 19, 2023, at 6:49 PM, marianne denning via
>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> The McDuffy Reader is the book that is sold by the Independence Market
>>> but it is only available in hard copy Braille. I believe teaching
>>> Braille should only be done using hard copy Braille but it is fine for
>>> the teacher to have an electronic copy.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
>>> <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho
>>> Steele-Louchart via NFB-Braille-Discussion
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2023 11:48 PM
>>> To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] reading materials for teaching
>>> braille on the NLS Ereader
>>>
>>> You also might get this, or the Independence Market equivalent:
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.b
>>> raillebookstore.com%2FUnified-English-Braille-Contractions-Booklet.1&
>>> data=05%7C01%7C%7Ce5fab4d4df0e4cd35dbd08db2d298b49%7C84df9e7fe9f640af
>>> b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638153428671635421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>>> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
>>> C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n7TQ28HUuAltzYt%2FmCL2MxVxKPXgo0Dqsd4JbWbFXsw%3D
>>> &reserved=0
>>>
>>> Sanho
>>>
>>>> On 3/18/23, Susan Jolly via NFB-Braille-Discussion
>>>> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Website:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>> dotlessbraille.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ce5fab4d4df0e4cd35dbd08db2d29
>>>> 8b49%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638153428671791676
>>>> %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
>>>> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6JmW7HYbaxJNsFLWnHSmTb
>>>> G5tnkyiFSp5E2W8Pk5D1s%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 18, 2023, at 8:03 PM, Ken Lawrence via
>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi list finally am going to meetings in person again and I now
>>>>> want to go to help a friend learn braille.  I have one of the NLS
>>>>> braille Ereaders.
>>>>> Do any on list know where I can get some basic silple first great
>>>>> reading materials like the dick and jane or the tip series as well
>>>>> as a primer that I can use to help this friend? Something I can
>>>>> download to the reader.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> He/Him
>>>
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>>
>>
>> Ramona
>> _______________________________________________
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