[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Mon Jun 15 20:08:20 UTC 2009

Makes sense, John, and some interesting points you raise. But sometimes I 
say "degree of impairment" because in many instance, real communication is 
dependent on one's ability to hear or see. Likewise, deaf people may label 
themselves 'hard of hearing' and vice versa for reasons of personal and/or 
social identity. You can belong to the Deaf community however and whenever 
you want regardless of your degree of impairment. For that reason, it 
becomes confusing as to how much/how well one is able to hear when one 
labels self as 'deaf' or hard of hearing based on identification or 
disassociation with the Deaf community. And I have had encounters with 
people who are deaf-blind who actually see much better than I'd yet refer to 
themselves in ways that it implies they can see absolutely nothing (like one 
of my friends who stopped driving 10 years ago and calls himself "normally 
sighted" even though he uses a cane now). What we are seeing here is the 
problem with labels.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication


> Mussie:
>
> The reason I referred to modes of communication and NOT degrees of
> deaf-blindness is that the seating arrangements actually depend on the
> communication mode.  Degree of DBness almost has nothing to do with it.
> While many people with the same level of vision that I do don't listen to
> ASL tactually but rather use their vision, there are others with more 
> vision
> than I do who listen to ASL tactually as I do.  Conversely, there are some
> who are very, very blind but who insist on using their eyes, refusing to 
> use
> their hands.  I have known mildly hard of hearing blind people to prefer
> signing and some who are almost totally deaf yet keep on trying to hear
> speech.  So degree of deafness or blindness is no way to classify or
> categorize DB people for any practical purpose.
>
> This is precisely why I never ask anyone how much vision or hearing they
> have.  I also don't like it when others ask me that, because this is a
> medical question and tends to come from a belief system I disagree
> with--that more vision is better than less or more hearing is better than
> less.  What is really better is if the person is well-adapted.  For 
> example,
> a totally blind person who is fluent in Braille is much better off than a
> person who has more vision but strains to read the CC-TV, takes a minute 
> to
> focus on the screen, sometimes misreads, and who will snap at you if you
> interrupt her reading.  So asking that person how much vision she has is a
> joke, and the person who asks it and learns that she "still has useable
> vision" and is happy to learn this is reinforcing the mistaken belief that
> she should use her vision, no matter what, until the very last drop is 
> gone.
>
>
> Upon meeting people for the first time, it is immediately clear whether or
> not they're well-adapted, independent, use their tools comfortably and 
> with
> ease, etc.  There is no need for me to ask any questions related to 
> vision,
> hearing, or whatever.  Take my recent encounter with a DB woman from Long
> Islan, NY.
>
> Me: Hello.  What's your name?
>
> Woman: who are you?  What is your name?
>
> Me: My name is John.  J O H N.  No, John.  Yes, that's right.  What is 
> your
> name?
>
> Woman: I am from Long Island.
>
> Me: Oh, that's nice.  But what's your name?
>
> Woman: I work at a department store.  My job is to fold clothes.
>
> Me: Do you like your job?
>
> Woman: My name is Allison.
>
> Mussie, what good is it to ask how much vision she has?  Whatever vision 
> she
> has, she's not well-adapted to reality.  I remember my mother telling me
> about a DB woman she saw at AADB.  The woman was chatting with her old
> friend, also DB, and after that conversation, the woman turns to her 
> husband
> and remarks "Wow, her vision is worse than mine!  We used to be about the
> same, but she has lost much of her vision!"  But the funny thing was that 
> it
> was obvious to my mother that the woman's vision was, in fact, far worse
> than her old friend's vision.  But the woman was blind to that fact, blind
> to the fact she needs a cane, needs Braille, etc.
>
> Ah well!
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Mussie
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
> I agree with you, John, regarding the arrangement of chairs. Many places
> have even tables and chairs attached to the floor, forcing the deaf-blind 
> to
>
> look for alternative seating.
> It is a common misconception that by simply stating you are deaf-blind, 
> most
>
> people will assume that you are totally incapable of hearing and seeing. 
> For
>
> that reason, I would simply tell Haben that the way communication
> accommodation is provided depends on degree of deaf-blindness, leaving out
> the need to describe the various modes and instances of communication. 
> From
> my understanding, the majority of deaf-blind individuals actually use
> tactile American Sign Language (TASL), and so communication that places so
> much emphasis on typing messages may not be an ideal solution. The 
> DeafBlind
>
> Communicator even greets the hearie-sightie with something like, "I am 
> blind
>
> and can't hear" (which is much more salient) than simply saying, "I am
> deaf-blind," (which is more confusing). That is apparently because most
> hearing people have enver encountered a deaf-blind and all too often 
> assume
> that deaf-blindness connotes total loss of vision and hearing. That has 
> been
>
> the problem between me and hearing people.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
>> Haben:
>>
>> No.  This chain relay interpreting is ideal for small groups.  Larger
>> groups
>> would result in "telephone line" lags and errors.  Most large groups, in
>> meetings or for presentations, would have many different things going on.
>> Some will watch the presenter directly, sitting up close.  Others may 
>> join
>> groups of four or five people who watch one relay interpreter.  some 
>> would
>> have tactile interpreters.  Others listen to ALDS or read large print or
>> Braille feeds.  For this reason, the ideal venue is an open floor and
>> chairs
>> that you can arrange in any kind of way.  Places with chairs fixed to the
>> floor are bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Haben Girma
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:24 PM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>
>>
>> So at the AADB meetings, is that how they communicate to the whole
>> group. So if one person is presenting, do the people next to her relay
>> the message around the circle?
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> Mussie wrote:
>>> Haben,
>>> I was once asked this question, although I generally only work on
>>> one-on-one training sessions. Sign language is not the only group-wide
>>> communication. I am sure there will be much simplier way to
>>> communciate in groups in the future, like there will be cell phone
>>> based video conversation via ASL in situations where it may not be
>>> possible to see one's signing. But for the deaf-blind, there are other
>>> options, including networked communication options (Face to Face and
>>> the DBC can permit this), though it may not be an they may not be an
>>> ideal solution in some situations. I also used to do group tactile
>>> signing in which what one is saying at the other end is relayed
>>> through the person or persons close to the receiver of the signing.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:03 AM
>>> Subject: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> John, you mentioned somewhere that your wife is not your interpreter.
>>>> I imagine that you do find yourself occasionally in large social
>>>> groups. What do you do in these situations? Do you just sign to the
>>>> people next to you? Does your wife really not interpret at all what
>>>> the people across the table are signing? Of course if your wife were
>>>> your interpreter she would not get a chance to participate in the
>>>> conversation herself, but then how can you participate in the large
>>>> group conversation if someone does not interpret for you? I'm curious
>>>> specifically about informal groups of 4 to six friends.
>>>>
>>>> Haben
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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