[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

[John Lee Clark]

Mussie:

Thank you for elaborating a bit.

Yes, there are natural pressures going on all the time, such as my naturally
preferring to talk with a signer over a nonsigner and if the nonsigner wants
to talk with me but finds that I am more ready to talk with the signer, this
would be natural pressure for the nonsigner.  The nonsigner would then have
a choice to make, whether or not to learn signing or understand that there
are certain other times and contexts in which I'd be more available.  

But I have never "tried" to "encourage" anyone in any conscious way.  I
think that might happen if I want to have a relationship with someone
badly--such as my own mother--and if that person doesn'[t learn sign
language yet both that person and I expect to have a relationship, then
maybe that's a situation where I'd ask the other person to consider
learning.  But I have never been in such a situation.  The reason is because
everyone I want a relationship with badly already knows sign language.  And
all of the other relationships that have developed have the other person
already making the choice to learn sign language.  I have no friends who
don't kinow sign language, and Ii guess the reason is quite simple: How
could we have become friends in the first place without communication?  In
order for there to be a friendship in the first place, we would have to
communicate.  So that naturally takes care of itself.

I am surprised to read about your friend bristling at the idea she needs to
learn sign language because she thinks you're the one to adapt further
because of your perceived limitations.  I have never encountered this
sentiment.  I mean, many, many people are eager to learn signing even if
there's no real need for it--everywhere I go, it's like sign language blooms
like flowers all over, with almost total strangers immediately wanting to
learn.  Example: My apartment manager, concriege, security guards, and the
maintenance staff, upon our arrival here, all have learned up to varying
levels, but my point is all of them were eager to learn something.  We
didn't ask any of them to.  Other avenues of communication were available:
note writing, SBC, etc. etc.  They didn't have to, or need to or anything
like that.

And you're telling me you have a FRIEND--not merely your apartment manager
or a waitress at a restaurant near you, but a FRIEND--who bristles at the
idea of signing?  That's fascinating.  I am sure it has been food for
thought for you, too.

But I want to point out that we don't have special limitations.  Your
description of your friend leaves me with the impression she believes you
are disabled, some kind of lesser class, and that she is not in that class,
but in a superior class or something, and she expects you to adapt or work
around her standards.  If so, that's really screwed up, in my opinion.  No
offense to you or your friend, but we're all human beings here and we all
have serious limitations.  Our society may favor your friend in that it
offers her more resources for overcoming her limitations, and our society
may disfavor you and me in refusing or limiting the resources available to
us, but that doesn't mean we have"more" limitations than your friend.
Especially when it comes to friendships, we should be considered equal--not
the same, but still equal.

And remember my point that two people in the relationship should think of
what would be the best for the relationship.  Spoken English may be the best
language, the easiest, fastest, etc. for your friend.  Sign language may be
the best for you.  But what you two should ideally consider is what is best
for the relationship--not her, not you, but the relationship.  If anyone
chooses to learn sign language, her or she is not doing so FOR you, poor
deaf-blind Mussie, but is doing so for the relationship.  Iif anyone has an
attitude of, "Fine, I'll learn ASL FOR you, so this will help YOU," then
that's a very bad thing and you should in fact discourage the person from
learning sign language at all.

Why?  Because this "I'm helping YOU" attitude means you won't have a healthy
relationship.  That person will fee like she or he is doing you a FAVOR and
you should be GRATEFUL, that you are the getter and he or she is the giver,
that you're the lucky beneficiary of his or her selfless KINDNESS.  I am
sure you don't want this!  Smile.

So, in some cases, it is actually better to tell someone NOT to learn sign
language or make any kind of effort he or she feels is special, that's for
YOU.  

But anyway your friend who bristles, I would agree with you on not pressing
her at all.  Never encourage.  Let the natural elements take care of
themselves.  I mean, if you prefer signing over using the DBC to talk, then
just follow that.  If someone wants a relationship with you, but notices
that you tend to give more attention to signers, that person can either
accept her place in the line for your attention, your priorities, your time,
etc.  If that person is not satisfied with that place and wants to have a
closer relationship with you, then there are things that person can try to
accomplish this, including learning more sign language.  If someone tells
you "I want you to spend more time with me BUT without my having to learn
sign language," that person would be asking for something unnatural.
Sometimes we do unnatural things like making very special efforts.  Family
often requires unnatural actions and choices because the daughter wants to
have a real mother very badly and will compromise anything to reach her, or
vice versa.  This can get really complicated, huh?  

John
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mussie
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:22 PM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Certainly "pressing" might not have been the right word, John. I should
actually have said that I tried to encourage them. The reason for me
attempting to "press" them was a part of my anthropological project to study
cultural patterns and language and how people react to different types of
behaviors that relate to communicate. For instance, it appears to me that
trying to encourage people to appreciate and learn sign language can
backfire depending on cultural factors (for example, here we are highly
individualistic, whereas some of my Asian buddies seemed to readily learn
new approaches to communication). Strictly speaking, the above is
speculation and in no way reflects actual patterns of behavior concerning
language and culture.
In my estimination, if you were distancing yourself from someone because
they didn't learn sign language and you won't allow that person to interact
with you through others intimately related to you, people will actually tend
to perceive it as a pressure on them. I seem to notice this pattern myself.
For example, I have a good friend from the days of junior school, but I tend
to talk more frequently with another friend who knows sign language. The
nonsigning friend eventually told me he feels as though I was pressing him
to learn sign language since I had the option of the SBC to communicate with
him.
Well, I will elaborate the subject more thoroughly at a different time. 
Right now I am running late for something.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication


> Mussie:
>
> Thank you for sharing about pressing your friends.  But I am puzzled.  How
> is it that you got into the position to press them in the first place?  I
> mean, I have never, not once, pressed any one to learn sign language.
> I've
> never had to ask it or insist on it or anything like that.  So I've never
> been in a position where I found it necessary or needed to press anyone.
>
> So I am really confused by what you mean . . .  Can you elaborate?
>
> John
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-db mailing list
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
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>


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