[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
Haben Girma
habnkid at aol.com
Wed Jun 17 08:13:58 UTC 2009
It seems that a db person must just accept that some people will never
learn ASL. As you say Mussie, some will bristle if pressured to learn
sign. But then others will just keep postponing it, never making it a
priority. As John said in an earlier message, such people soon feel
comfortable with their mode of communication, whether SBC or print on
palm...Maybe they don't realize how smooth communication would be with
ASL, or maybe, just maybe, they're not really that interested in keeping
up a dynamic relationship. For most people, ablebodied and disabled, a
social circle includes friendships of varying degrees. So in that sense,
it is normal for a db person to have a few friends who won't take the
time to learn sign, and a few other friends who do learn sign and allow
the relationship to grow even more. Having a "full" social life may mean
having a diverse array of friendships and acquaintances that use an
equally diverse array of communication methods.
Haben
Mussie wrote:
> We are having a meeting of minds, Haben, on the issue of diversity. I
> have tried to push some of my friends to learn sign language in order
> to be able to effectively communicate with me, making little effort on
> my part to encourage and motivate them, but that approach more often
> than not backfires. For instance, one of my friends bristled at the
> perceived "social pressure" to adapt to/learn something new for which
> it is me who must adapt by virtue of my limitations. In effect, if I
> press friends or even family members hard enough to learn sign
> language, I am turning them off. Allowing them the opportunity/time to
> get motivated and learn is the best approach psychologically.
> But as you said, it is a choice that John is making, and it is his
> choice alone that nobody has the right to insist something else. What
> works for him, works for him. There just doesn't seem to be a right or
> wrong way of communicating. And as I said before, much of my
> interaction with people doesn't depend on sign language but on written
> communication. Personally, I would love for people to learn sign
> language, but for me variety is the spice of life. By initially
> communicating with people however is easier for BOTH of us, I motivate
> them to learn sign language, but I also feel it broadens my horizon if
> I didn't set conditions and respected people's diverse styles of
> communication.
> Again, I take off my hat to John for standing for his personal values.
> Mussie
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
>>
>> Growing up in Oakland I have been exposed to so many different
>> cultures where communication styles differ greatly. This environment
>> has left me with a social obligation to always reach out to people.
>> Sometimes it's just helping hearing people learn to communicate with
>> me, and other times it's trying to make sense of the broken English
>> of a Russian. John, it gets really exhausting to have to reach out
>> and struggle to communicate with people on a regular basis. By
>> refusing to sustain relationships with non-signers, you relieve
>> yourself of the stress involved with communicating with people who
>> don't share your communication style. I not only respect your choice,
>> I admire it, too. You're declaring that your current social life is
>> enough. So fulfilling, in fact, that you don't need to make that
>> extra effort to communicate with the non-signers. Personally, I
>> prefer diversity in my friends and that extends to a diverse range of
>> communication styles. As a result, my social interactions aren't
>> always smooth and seemless, but they're lively and fulfilling just
>> the same.
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> Mussie wrote:
>>> John,
>>> A lot of the time I am around people who have promised to learn sign
>>> language but never actually do in the end. They need the motivation
>>> to do so; setting an obligation for them to learn is like telling
>>> your foreign-born wife who may not be fluent in English to learn
>>> more as a preclude to "good relationship". My girlfriend's parents
>>> know absolutely no sign language except a few signs for basic
>>> things, and 95% of the time communication is done with them
>>> fingerspelling and me voicing. Personally, forcing people to learn
>>> sign language as a condition for developing a relationship is very
>>> counterproductive, because the nonsigner simply often feels no
>>> responsibility because his communication mode is "normal" in his/her
>>> mind; the same may be true for someone who is deaf/hard of hearing,
>>> and each must find ways to enhance communication without setting
>>> conditions. I fully respect you, John, but I had trouble with your
>>> approach with others, and that approach simply may reflect
>>> personality styles and cultural expectations that vary.
>>> I have a lot of deaf-blind and deaf friends whose parents don't know
>>> sign language, and this is really unfortunate and makes
>>> communication choppy/ineffective. But forcing relatives to learn is
>>> like pushing them to the edge and risking alienating them. Finding
>>> other ways to communicate motivates them to learn sign language. A
>>> lot of the time I meet people they tell me they want to learn sign
>>> language but don't have the energy and time because they grew up
>>> hearing.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>>
>>>
>>>> Haben:
>>>>
>>>> While most of the social gatherings we find ourselves in are all
>>>> signers,
>>>> there are some in which there are some nonsigners. Take my wife's
>>>> side of
>>>> the family. Her father doesn't sign much nor does two of her five
>>>> aunts.
>>>> Even in those situations, no one has any special interpreting
>>>> obligations.
>>>> If my father-in-law wants to develop a relationship with me, he has
>>>> to learn
>>>> to sign more. We do not allow him to use my mother-in-law to talk
>>>> with us
>>>> at any length. Unfortunately, he has never made any serious moves
>>>> to learn
>>>> more. The result is that my wife and her father do not have a
>>>> relationship.
>>>> It's his choice, really. early in my marriage, I made overtures,
>>>> but none
>>>> of them led to anything.
>>>>
>>>> This might as well be, because if someone really wants to have a
>>>> relationship with you, you two will naturally strive to communicate
>>>> with
>>>> each other and do what it takes. If there is a relationship in
>>>> which there
>>>> is an interpreter is always used, that means one of the parties
>>>> wants the
>>>> relationship more than the other. I've known some people who have
>>>> only one
>>>> person in the family who interprets between the two languages, and
>>>> one or
>>>> both of the sides would latch onto that person and take advantage
>>>> of the
>>>> interpreting instead of making any progress toward communicating
>>>> with each
>>>> other independently. I think this is sick. My wifee and I don't want
>>>> anyone to have this role, or have this as an excuse to avoid making
>>>> their
>>>> own efforts. By adhering to this principle, we've had several family
>>>> members make their choices and make progress. Yes, some still
>>>> refuse, but
>>>> that's their loss. I mean, the very fact they're refusing tells
>>>> you they
>>>> are probably not worth having a serious relationship with anyway.
>>>>
>>>> So you gotta determine what boundaries you're going to establish,
>>>> then you
>>>> just let the consequent dynamic take care of itself. It may mean
>>>> letting go
>>>> of some hopes that some would respect you--you would be very right
>>>> to hope
>>>> this very much, but it's their choice, and you have a choice, too,
>>>> whether
>>>> to let that go or bleed.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf
>>>> Of Haben Girma
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:21 PM
>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for explaining all of that, John. In trying to imagine the
>>>> situation, I had totally loverlooked that fact that in an all-signing
>>>> group anyone could interpret what the rest of the group is saying.
>>>> Then
>>>> your wife doesn't have any special powers of communication that
>>>> members
>>>> of the group would lack. All can sign, and all can communicate with
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Haben
>>>>
>>>> John Lee Clark wrote:
>>>>> Haben:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, I find myself in groups and I often host them. However, ninety
>>>>> percent of the conversations are between two people. They just do
>>>>> it in a
>>>>> group setting. It is rare for a true group conversation to happen
>>>>> that
>>>>> includes the group as a whole.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I would talk with the people on either side of me, but I also
>>>>> have an
>>>>> extra chair so that anyone else can come over and sit there to talk
>>>> directly
>>>>> with me. There may be brief spurts of interpreting involved, such
>>>>> as two
>>>>> other people having a conversation and one of them says that I know
>>>>> something about something and asks me through one of the people
>>>>> sitting
>>>> next
>>>>> to me. If it happens that this question leads to a whole new
>>>>> conversation
>>>>> that is getting deeper, I ask the person to come and sit in that
>>>>> chair so
>>>> we
>>>>> can continue the conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I am the host, I'd be too busy for a serious conversation
>>>>> during the
>>>>> meal. So while I am attending to everyone's needs, I'[d just have
>>>>> short
>>>>> conversations with everyone in turn as I go around. I'll have
>>>>> time for
>>>>> longer conversations later in the evening.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the event there is a real group discussion or when someone is
>>>> addressing
>>>>> the group as a whole, I might have the person next to me at that
>>>>> moment
>>>>> interpret for me, or I'd sit next to the person who is signing to the
>>>> whole
>>>>> group, meaning there's no interpreter. My wife has sometimes
>>>>> interpreted
>>>> in
>>>>> this scenario, but not often. We rarely sit next to each other.
>>>>> After
>>>> all,
>>>>> we are together every day at home. But if she does interpret, it
>>>>> would be
>>>>> because she happens to be in the right spot or has offered to, but
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> else in the group could be the same. It's not like she has a
>>>>> special or
>>>>> extra responsibility for me. Just anyone would do, and it's just
>>>>> part of
>>>>> the flow.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there are other deaf-blind people in the group, or the group is
>>>>> all
>>>>> deafblind, things may be different, but even in the entirely
>>>>> deafblind
>>>>> group, interpreting may come up. I've often interpreted myself, as a
>>>> relay
>>>>> interpreter or a chain interpreter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember that one principle is that whatever I get myself involved
>>>>> in, it
>>>> is
>>>>> something I can do on my own just as well as with my wife. If it's
>>>>> something where I would have trouble on my own, I'd make other
>>>> arrangements
>>>>> even if my wife is involved. This is to say, whether or not my
>>>>> wife is
>>>>> there should make absolutely no difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-db mailing list
>>>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
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