[nfb-db] Communication Options and Technology

Sun May 17 01:41:25 UTC 2009

Mussie:

I think you've misunderstood me a bit about my preference for ASL.  It's not
about preferring to use interpreters.  I rarely use them.  I use them if I
go to my naturopathic doctor or denist, at literary readings and events,
conferences, workshops, etc.  I mean, reading Braille at such places is
going to limit my access and also others' access to me.  There are usually
more than one person--take a class for an example.  Of course, I'[d prefer
to use ASL interpreters.

My preference for ASL is mainly a cultural thing.  You know how people of
one culture and one community are naturally attracted to fellow members, and
have a higher tendency to socialize with their fellow members, who speak the
same language.  I was born into the signing community, raised and educated
in it, and so it's only natural that most of my social life happens among
signers.  Though I am sure there are many very nice hearing and sighted
nonsigners, I am not attracted to them, and do not find it very rewarding or
enjoyable to socialize with them.  

Over the years, I've met and made friends with people who were at first
nonsigners--who I met through a cloass, say, or at a writers' retreat, or
whatever--And it has always been a natural process that if someone is
serious about having a relationship with me will learn ASL.  That has always
happened.  It happens very, very fast.  For example, at a two-week camp, my
new friend would go from zero to the equivalent of what ASL students learn
in a whole semester.  It is an easy and a natural process.  

Yes, SBC can help start up the friendship, but soon it is abandoned in favor
of signing.  And as the signing progresses, it becomes many times better
than the SBC.  Why would I want to stick with the SBC and prevent the other
person from picking up signing and get stuck with the SBC as the only way to
communicate for years on end with the same person?

But for certain situations, such as with waiters and cashiers, where the
relationship is not going anywhere beyond that of a customer relationship,
the SBC is a great way to do small talk and be friendly.  My favorite ban k
teller, for example, has twins like I do, and we ask each other how our boys
are doing.  A waiter at one place is a poet, and we talk a bit about our
latest publications.  You get the idea.  But once the relationship grows,
for whatever reason, the other person is going to learn ASL.  

I hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mussie
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:19 PM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Communication Options and Technology

John and Haben,
I am reading your exchanges and have noted what you two have to say 
regarding the SBC and other communication devices. I am interested in those 
kinds of discussions because they are essential to understanding deaf-blind 
consumer behavior and preferences, for I have been trying to provide the 
best services possible to enhance communication for DB folks.
John, you impress me with the communication tools you have at your disposal.

But I wonder why you would prefer ASL in situations where sign language is 
not the option (reliance on third party individuals to provide a bridge to 
communication between you and the nonsigner might, from personal experience,

be time consuming and less efficient). I admit I don't use the SBC much. 
Most often I tend to communicate via body language/perceptions with voice 
input. However, when it comes to important or long conversations, I'd rely 
on the SBC. I can use it for hours on end, or I can use my Face to Face 
communication package from Freedom. But of course, communicating without a 
reliable device and only body language is pretty difficult, but my SBC had 
died on me recently and I have not thought of getting another one because 
our state may begin distributing free BrailleNotes with the DBC package 
(assuming the state utility commission approves the project).
I have used several models of the SBC since 2003, and the latest model is 
more efficient, at least IMHO. The visual display is slightly larger and the

QWERTY KB underwent modification, and hearie-sighties indicated that is the 
best one in terms of ergomonics. But then came the DBC, which I have used 
but can't presently offer a honest opinion since I plan on evaluating it 
again (most likely next month). Personally for me, the DBC is more likely to

encourage hearing folks to communicate with the deaf-blind and take DB 
communication up a notch with its inclusive, all-in-one approach: TTY, SMS, 
IM, and Face to Face (in conjunction with the DB companion unit or on a 
larger computer monitor).
Mussie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Communication Options and Technology

Haben:

I understand your dilemma.

I've known different SBCs to have different qualities in the Qwerty keyboard
part.  Mine happens to be good.  So if you get it and find that they
keyboard isn't good, you should send it back and get another one.

I haven't noticed the keyboard being an obstacle, except when the other
person cannot type or write in English.

Yes, most of the conversations I have on the SBC are brief.  That's the way
I like it.  I don't want long conversations with anyone using any kind of
device.  I prefer ASL for in-person conversations.

But often I'd be approached by strangers wanting to talk with me.  They'd
seen me using it with the waiter, for example, and they'd come over, tap me
on the shoulder, and gesture typing to indicate they want to talk with me
via the SBC.  The other day, at Trattoria da Vinci, a man sat next to me and
made the typing gesture.  I was annoyed because I was trying to eat and also
was enjoying my Braille magazine on my lap.  He typed to say "You're hot."
In my mind, I rolled my eyes.  Not again.  But I typed back "Thank you but
I'm not gay."  This has happened quite a number of times, with both women
and men.  One woman who did this was even the owner of the restaurant, and
her hands were all over me and she was typing stuff that made me blush, but
I told her to back off, and I've never went to her place again since.

I guess it depends on your needs.  If you do want to meet new people, the
SBC wouldn't be an obstacle, though it may be a bit slow, but at least you
can read what they're typing at the same time, live, or you can use the
buffer mode.  If you want longer, more social conversations, then maybe
you'll need a better system.  I dunno.  But me, I don't want to meet new
people who don't sign.  I have a full social life in the signing community
and make new signing friends all the time, so when I go out I just want
practical conversations to get things done or get what I want, nothing more.
Maybe if I was single, I'd welcome others hitting on me . . .  Smile.

Haben, your trips are also probably very different from mine.  I live din
downtown St. Paul, and it has done of the world's three largest, most
extensive skyway systems.  Minneapolis and Montreal are the other two.
Skyways are enclosed bridges between buildings, on the second floord, so
walking through one, you are going above the street under you.  Most of the
buildings here leave their street and second levels for stores and stuff and
the third floor on up would be apartments or officesd or the like.  Pretty
much everything I need are accessible by skyway, meaning I don't need to
cross a single street.  There are countless restaurants, delis,
confectionaries, coffee shops . .  And Macy's, several food stores,
convenience stores, chiropractors, dentists, hairstylists, Radio Shack,
spaces that have different bazaars going on year round, art galleries,
bookstores.  Banks, brokerages, relators, job search agencies.  YMCA,
private fitness clubs, members-only spas and such.  Social Security
Administration, the Department of Deaf, Hard of hearing, and Deaf Blind
Services, and the Minnesota Commission Serving the Deaf, Hard of Hearing,
and DeafBlind are also accessible by skyways.  In my own building, the
Kellogg Market, a shoe repair place, a CPA firm, the Prada Café, Quiznos,
and Senor Wong restaurant.  I just elevator down to the second floor, and
I'm on the skyway level and can walk to any one of many locations without
crossing a single street.  Yesterday, I took the boys to the Science Museum.
Today, we'll go to the library.  Tomorrow, we're meeting up with friends at
the Children's Museum.  All accessible by skyway.

So you understand, I have access to a great many things without even using
the good bus system here.  I do use it, and it's easy to use, but my point
is that I don't need it much.  I don't need to pack a lot of errands into
one trip, and I don't wait much, because I can just get to where I want to
and get right back home.  So I guess in this context, carrying nothing is
often the way to go, or I'd just need the SBC.  I won't have the time to
read books on the Wave or anything like that.

Hey, I wonder if it'd work to use a USB cord and an adapter so that you can
detach the Qwerty keyboard from your Braille display and they're still
connected, so that you can turn the keyboard around to face the other
person.  And you'd be able to navigate around the text the other person is
typing by using the Wiz wheels.  Do you know if this will work?  I threw out
my old Pac Mate some years ago, so I can't test that.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Haben Girma
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:17 AM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Communication Options and Technology

John, you've really drawn out the virtues of the SBC. It does really
seem like the best item out there so far.

My dilemma is that I already have a PAC Mate and don't think I have the
shoulder strength to carry around both my PAC Mate and an SBC. I like to
take my PAC Mate everywhere so that I can read books while riding buses,
subways, planes, and when I'm waiting for a friend to arrive somewhere.
The PAC Mate's keyboard is comfortable to use and I could just instruct
people to type on it. Unlike the SBC, though, I wouldn't be able to read
what they were typing until after they finished, thereby prolonging the
interaction, which might not be desirable in certain settings (i.e. a
long line). I also feel like the SBC's small keyboard discourages
people, to a small extent, from communicating with the DB person. I've
heard that the keyboard is uncomfortable to use, making it a sort of
obstacle people desiring to communicate with a DB person would have to
overcome. You mention that you primarily use it for brief and quick
encounters.

It would be great if Freedom Scientific would create a device like the
PAC Mate where the braille keyboard could be optionally maneuvered from
in front of the keyboard to behind the keyboard. The brailel display on
the PAC Mate is detachable, so another option would be to have the
braille display communicate with the main part of the PAC Mate
wirelessly, or through a reasonably lengthed cord.

So, I'm wondering whether most people in the public would rather
communicate with me on my PAC Mate or on a cell phone connected to my
PAC Mate. Typing on the cell phone has the disadvantage that such
conversations could only be slow. There's also the risk you mention of
someone wanting to steal the cell phone. My PAC Mate, on the other hand,
has a nice keyboard that would be easy to type on. The question is:
Would people feel comfortable not seeing what they were typing (the PAC
Mate doesn't have a visual screen), and would it really be faster with
the PAC Mate when I wouldn't be able to read what they typed until after
they finished and passed the machine back to me?

Haben

John Lee Clark wrote:
> Haben:
>
> There are three other options I know of.
>
> One is to use a cell phone and a Braille display that connects wirelessly
to
> it via Bluetooth.  You hand the other person the cell phone, which you've
> already set to the notes program.  I've done this before with my Nokia
cell
> phone and my Braille Wave.  There are two disadvantages to this, however:
> One, the cell phone may be a desirable, famililar item the other person
> would be tempted to steal from you; and two, it requires some time to set
> things up--turning on both devices, waiting for the cell phone to boot up,
> then setting up the notes program . . .  Whereas with the Screen Braille
> Communicator, you can just turn it on and it's ready to go right away.
>
> Another option is the Tabli, which you can connect to a HandyTech device
> such as the Braille Wave.  The Tabli has a Qwerty board that connects to
the
> Braille Wave through one cord, and a screen, which is separate, connecting
> to it through another cord.  The screen will show in text whatever is
going
> on in Braille.  Turning on the Wave, you go to File, then New File.  Then
> whatever you type on the Wave will show.  Whatever the other person types
on
> the Qwerty board will show up both on the screen and on your Braille
> display.  However, you have four separate things to assemble here: Wave,
> Qwerty board, a cord, and the screen.  Worse still, the screen has two
> triangles on its back that makes sit stand up on an angle.  This makes
> packing it hard, with these two large triangles pointing, and they cannot
be
> removed.  This requires a surface, on which everything can rest.  The
Screen
> Braille Communicator has a huge advantage over this because it's just one
> piece--I know it has different parts, but still it's functionally one
> piece--and you don't need a surface, and you can use it while standing on
> the middle of a sidewalk, asking someone for directions or whatever.
>
> Finally, there is the DeafBlind Communicator.  This option is almost like
> the first one I listed, with the cell phone replaced by a small pager-like
> device with a keyboard and a screen.  Since this item is not a cell phone
> and is not a familiar commercial object, I don't think it'd be a target
for
> theft.  And I believe it turns on right away, leaving only your setting
> things up on the mPower display.  However, the DBC is far more expensive
> than the SBC.
>
> What I use depends on the situation.  I use the SBC most often for
> communicating with waiters, cashiers, salespersons, et al.  Most of the
> conversations are brief, often only one turn, in which I order something
or
> ask for something, and that's all that's needed.  For others, the SBC is
> mainly an opportunity to communicate with me if they want to or need
> to--such as letting me know that they're out of something or to let me
know
> what time tomorrow the barber has an opening.  So the Qwerty keyboard
> doesn't get much use.  It's nice that I can just turn it on, anywhere, and
> it doesn't require a table or anything.  It's easy to pack or just carry
> alone.
>
> On more extended trips on which I want the Wave with me anyway, for
reading
> and texting with my wife or others, I don't need the SBC.  But the main
> reason I am bringing the Wave and the cell phone is not to communicate
with
> people, though that is a bonus.
>
> Traveling out of the state, I usually bring both Wave/cell and SBC.
>
> I often go out with nothing but my cane.  I can just ask for a pen and
paper
> and write.  That works most of the time.  If the other person needs to
tell
> me something or ask something, it's easy to do print on palm.  The
alphabet
> glove is also extremely reliable.
>
> Around here, I am well known, and often Ii just walk in the place and
> everything will be ready for me without my writing anything at all.  At
some
> places, it's a simple gesture that will do.  For example, at D. Bryan's, I
> always get either a cheeseburger or a chicken cranberry almond wrap.  I
sign
> hamburger for the one and sign chicken for the other.  Most places here
have
> Braille menus, and sosme of them have print alongside the Braille, so you
> just point to the item and the waiter can see what it is.  At several
> restaurants and stores here, people can sign or at least fingerspell.
>
> Yes, I wish there was a better version of the SBC--one piece, just switch
on
> and go.  It's nice that some companies are adding stuff to their existing
> displays, but I really want a device like the SBC with just one purpose.
> But for now, the SBC is better than a lot of stuff for many kinds of
> situations.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date:
4/30/2009
> 5:53 PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-db mailing list
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>

_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
nfb-db at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009
5:53 PM

_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
nfb-db at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org

_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
nfb-db at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009
5:53 PM