[nfb-db] Other email list for DB persons:
Scott Davert
scottdavert at gmail.com
Tue Jul 31 19:13:25 UTC 2012
I wish we had something like this in NY....
Scott
On 7/31/12, Donna Momorella <gabey8 at aol.com> wrote:
> Philadelphia? I'm an SSP in Philadelphia, PA, and we have been working to
> get a deaf-blind social group together. We have everything from people born
> blind who lost hearing, people born deaf who lost vision, people born
> sighted and hearing who lost both, and people born deaf-blind. So there are
> newbies, old-bies, and everything in between.
>
> Email me at gabey8 at aol.com if you are interested in getting involved. Ditto
> for anyone else who is in the general area of SE PA. Some of our regulars
> live an hour or two away, so the footprint of the group is as extensive as
> we can make it.
>
> Donna
> --
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 31, 2012, at 8:51 AM, "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Scott and all,
>>
>> I guess what I am looking for the most, is a list with persons who would
>> not
>> mind a newbie. A newbie at dealing with hearing difficulties mostly. I
>> have
>> been blind for most of my life, so that part I have dealt with. A list I
>> can
>> ask questions, like how do I find elevators in a lobby and one has
>> opened,
>> but I can't hear the little ding they make? A place that will give me
>> tips
>> and tricks. Like this list. Perhaps a list of other DB guide dog users,
>> DB
>> list for other students, those sorts of lists. And DB people in my local
>> area. I mean I know I can't be the only one in the whole Philadelphia
>> area.
>> How do I connect to those people?
>>
>> You guys are so much more versed on this than I am, I crave for more
>> information, with more people who are in my boat.
>>
>> Sorry if I sound strange,
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Scott Davert
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:21 AM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Other email list for DB persons:
>>
>> Hi Marsha.
>> There are indeed a lot of mailing lists out there for various things.
>> What speicifically are you looking for? If you wish to subscribe to
>> any of the mailing lists that Janice provided, you can do so by
>> sending a blank message to the name of the
>> group+subscribe at googlegroups.com
>> So for example, if you wanted to subscribe to the DBTC list: you'd
>> send a blank email to db-talkcity+subscribe at googlegroups.com
>> You would then be required to reply to a message confirming your
>> request to join.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Scott
>>
>> On 7/30/12, Janice Toothman <janice.toothman at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Marsha,
>>> I have found many deaf-blind groups on the internet and belong to two
>>> others through google. There are at leastt least 16 different
>>> deaf-blind internet groups. Some are more "chatty" and high volume than
>>> others. For instance, dbtc: db-talkcity at googlegroups.com I have found
>>> to be high volume. where as DBL : deafblind at googlegroups.com is not.
>>> There are others that are topic oriented, such as the creative writing
>>> (DBCN:db-cnet at googlegroups.com). I hope this helps.
>>> Janice
>>> On 7/30/2012 4:31 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>> List,
>>>>
>>>> I am about a month away from starting my semester. I was down at the
>>>> campus
>>>> this morning, and I can already tell its going to be an interesting
>>>> semester. There is A LOT of construction going on the campus. So this
>>>> is
>>>> going to make for a difficult travel situation. In the past I have
>>>> preferred
>>>> to use my hearing aids while traveling. But with all the construction,
>>>> its
>>>> so noisy, I just take them out. And take my chances on just not
>>>> hearing.
>>>> I
>>>> am beyond frustrated at this point with my ears.
>>>>
>>>> My question, Catherine mentioned below, there are other email lists of
>>>> DB
>>>> people on the internet. I am interested in learning to navigate this
>>>> challenge I have ahead of me with no vision and very bad hearing. I
>>>> have
>>>> asked my university to help me secure funding to have an guide from the
>>>> train to my building and back on a daily bases. And I have even taken
>>>> the
>>>> leap to ask my BVS counselor if they can pay for ASL training. So I
>>>> would
>>>> like to meet other people like me. This list has been great. I am just
>>>> curious of what other people are out there.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Catherine Miller
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 3:24 PM
>>>> To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] nfb-db Digest, Vol 42, Issue 41
>>>>
>>>> Carrie: Folks here have given you some good advice. I agree with them
>>>> that
>>>> LCB is an excellent facility. Although I did not attend the center for
>>>> the
>>>> entire six months training, I have participated in other programs
>>>> there.
>>>> The executive director, Pam Allen, is a friend and mentor to me. Pam
>>>> and
>>>> I
>>>> regularly consult on matters pertaining to deaf-blindness. Based on
>>>> years
>>>> of experience with Pam and the Center, I my hunch is that you are not
>>>> required to cross the streets with your unique combination of hearing
>>>> loss
>>>> and vision loss. Rather, I think that, in typical fashion, LCB's staff
>>>> is
>>>> pushing you to find your own limits, allowing you to tell them when
>>>> enough
>>>> is enough. Our search for independence is a powerful motivator. We
>>>> can
>>>> surpass our limits, often very successfully, with the right motivation.
>>>> It's unbelievable what we are willing to risk to earn our freedom. But
>>>> ultimately, you call the shots yourself. Talk to your O&M instructor;
>>>> talk
>>>> to your rehab counselor. If you are determined to attain a higher
>>>> level
>>>> of
>>>> mobility than is possible in six to nine months, then think about
>>>> requesting
>>>> an extension of your length of stay at CB. I don't want to see you
>>>> crossing
>>>> the street in uncertainty out of frustration.
>>>>
>>>> Make an appointment with Pam Allen; tell her that I suggested it. She
>>>> needs
>>>> to know about the doubts you feel, in order to make adjustments to the
>>>> curriculum if that's what is required.
>>>>
>>>> I congratulate you on your strength of character and your unrelenting
>>>> desire
>>>> to achieve all that is possible, despite your unique combination of
>>>> sensory
>>>> disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that a very important question to answer is whether your
>>>> hearing is perfectly stable. Perhaps it is possible for you to learn
>>>> to
>>>> determine the directionality of traffice. But if your hearing, like
>>>> mine,
>>>> is unstable, whatever you learn will be lost when your hearing changes.
>>>> Likewise, if your hearing aid features adjustments that allow you to
>>>> turn
>>>> off rear microphones to block out background noise, be sure the
>>>> settings
>>>> are
>>>> always in the same position every time you stop to listen for traffic.
>>>>
>>>> You strike me as someone who does not find it easy to ask for help.
>>>> But
>>>> please consider whether an SSP might allow you to reach a higher level
>>>> of
>>>> achievement. If the answer is "possibly," then help us to organize
>>>> ourselves and a plan that will result in the education of the
>>>> Federation
>>>> about why we need SSPs.
>>>>
>>>> Carrie, I'm glad you've found the division list. There are other list
>>>> with
>>>> other DB people on the Internet. With your input, we can claim our
>>>> place
>>>> alongside our blind brothers and sisters. With the Federation's help,
>>>> there
>>>> is no limit to what we can accompish.
>>>>
>>>> With best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Cathy Miller
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:11 PM, nfb-db-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Send nfb-db mailing list submissions to
>>>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> nfb-db-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of nfb-db digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: Crossing Streets? (Marsha Drenth)
>>>>> 2. Re: Crossing Streets? (Alicia Richards)
>>>>> 3. Re: Crossing Streets? (Scott Davert)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:18:45 -0400
>>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
>>>>> Message-ID: <1FB9E1719C3849B0A200F7A2D9288C92 at Cptr233>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Carrie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Your not the first with a hearing impairment to go to a NFB center.
>>>>> How
>>>>> those other students did I am not sure. From what I have heard, the
>>>>> travel
>>>>> was the hardest of all. I don't have any suggestions on how you would
>>>> cross
>>>>> the streets better. But as a person with a hearing impairment myself,
>>>>> no
>>>>> normally hearing person, can know what we hear, the fear and
>>>>> uncertainty
>>>>> that goes along with that, or can walk in our shoes. Its hard. If
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> here has any good ideas please do share them. Please don't get me
>>>>> wrong,
>>>>> when I say this next part. The NFB centers are awesome in their
>>>>> training.
>>>>> The problem comes when a person, with a hearing impairment attends,
>>>>> they
>>>> are
>>>>> very not well equipped to train a person with both blindness and
>>>>> hearing
>>>>> difficulties. From another friend of mine who attended LCB quite a
>>>>> few
>>>>> years ago, there was a young lady who had a severe hearing loss. But
>>>>> again
>>>>> had trouble with travel. She left and I think was suppose to go to the
>>>> HKC.
>>>>> I might be wrong here. But when it comes to an NFB center it's the
>>>>> coined
>>>>> training and that is it, any deviation from that causes problems. At
>>>>> one
>>>>> point I looked into going to a training center, specifically an NFB
>>>> center,
>>>>> but because of my hearing impairment. I was not guaranteed that
>>>>> accommodations could be made for that. I am a very independent person,
>>>>> who
>>>>> uses a guide dog too, my cane skills are not what I would be going
>>>>> there
>>>>> for. The program is to be there for all of the training, including
>>>>> cane
>>>>> travel. I spoke to Al spooner, regarding this matter. Its really sad
>>>>> when
>>>> a
>>>>> person with a hearing impairment goes to an NFB center, and who can't
>>>>> have
>>>>> accommodations made for that. Again I might be wrong, so I would like
>>>>> for
>>>>> someone to prove me wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carrie, I do hope you find the information your looking for. Good
>>>>> luck!
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Kerri Kosten
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:22 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List; Ed McDonald; Charlene Smith;
>>>>> Arielle Silverman; Paul Migliorelli (+1 303-552-6970)
>>>>> Subject: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Everyone:
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I have been on this list for a long time now, I don't post
>>>>> much.
>>>>> But, I am having a problem I don't really know what to do about and I
>>>>> need to find a solution rather soon.
>>>>> I am a current student at the Louisiana Center for The Blind, the NFB
>>>>> training center. I did very extensive research before choosing this
>>>>> center, and I chose this one because I knew it was the best of the
>>>>> best and I could learn to become independent to the point where I
>>>>> would have the confidence to be able to go anywhere, have the
>>>>> confidence to do anything I wanted, and be able to travel in
>>>>> new/unfamiliar environments without needing to be orientated by a
>>>>> mobility instructor everytime I moved somewhere.
>>>>> Besides this, I much prefer the structured discovery method of
>>>>> learning over the ttraditional route travel method.
>>>>> In addition to being totally blind, I have hearing loss. I basically
>>>>> only have hearing in my left ear. My right ear is completely deaf.
>>>>> This means that I hear sounds pretty well but I have trouble with
>>>>> localization and knowing which direction sounds are coming from.
>>>>> I am at the point in my training where I am having to cross
>>>>> intersections with stoplights. In order to cross these intersections,
>>>>> I am supposed to cross when the parallel traffic is moving. The
>>>>> parallel street is the street that is beside me. When the parallel
>>>>> traffic is moving, the perpendicular traffic (traffic on the street in
>>>>> front of me) can not go.
>>>>> I am having two problems that do not seem to be getting better. First,
>>>>> I am having a lot of trouble telling which street is going. I can hear
>>>>> the traffic. I can hear when it is stopped/idaling. But, I am having
>>>>> trouble telling which street is moving, the one in front of me or the
>>>>> one beside me.
>>>>> At first, my instructor would ask me questions such as "What is
>>>>> moving?" and I would try to tell him/her and then cross at the
>>>>> appropriate time. However, now, since I have been in training for a
>>>>> couple of months, my instructor does not say anything because he/she
>>>>> wants me to make the decision on my own and trust myself.
>>>>> So, what happens is we approach the street. I admit I am terrified
>>>>> because there is so much traffic and I know I have to cross the street
>>>>> on my own. I attempt to listen. I get somewhat of an idea of what
>>>>> street is going. I then become even more scared though and don't
>>>>> cross. We end up just standing at the particular intersection for 20
>>>>> minutes or more and my instructor gets onto me.
>>>>> I don't know whether my issues are with hearing or my fear. My
>>>>> instructor avidly believes I am just letting my fear stop me and does
>>>>> not understand why I am not gaining confidence and beginning to trust
>>>>> myself more. My instructor believes I can do this even with one ear.
>>>>> I guess I am both afraid and unsure. I can sort of tell which street
>>>>> is moving because it seems at times (I don't know if this is accurate
>>>>> or not) but it seems that the perpendicular street (the street that is
>>>>> in front of me) sounds a bit louder and when the parallel street is
>>>>> moving (the one beside me) it sounds sort of quieter/a bit further
>>>>> away from my left ear. Sometimes though, on different streets, for
>>>>> some reason I don't hear this slight sound difference and all the
>>>>> traffic sounds the same to me. I can hear it, it just all sounds the
>>>>> same so I can't tell which street is going. However, I am still afraid
>>>>> to go, so end up just standing there for much longer than I should. I
>>>>> guess I am afraid that it will be the wrong time and if I go it will
>>>>> be the wrong time. So, I don't go, and we end up standing at one
>>>>> intersection for forever.
>>>>> The problem is that I have already been in training for a few months,
>>>>> and students are only in training for up to nine months. I want to do
>>>>> as well as I can here. I do not want to be one of those students who
>>>>> is here for nine months but barely learns anything. That is not why I
>>>>> came here.
>>>>> Also, these particular streets are only about four blocks from the
>>>>> center which is a very short distance. If I can not figure out how to
>>>>> cross these streets, I will never be able to advance very far in
>>>>> travel, and this will really cause me a lot of problems in the rest of
>>>>> my life when I have completed training.
>>>>> How do you all handle street crossings? How do you know which street
>>>>> is moving when you only have hearing in one ear?
>>>>> Is there something else I can listen for? Is there a certain pattern I
>>>>> can listen for or something to help me?
>>>>> Is it possible that I am becoming so terrified/anxious that my fear is
>>>>> affecting my hearing?
>>>>> Is it accurate/true that the perpendicular street sounds louder than
>>>>> the parallel one? Could I use this slight difference in sound to
>>>>> properly judge which street is moving?
>>>>> Could my attitude have something to do with this? Instead of going
>>>>> about this with an excited, positive, can-do attitude, maybe I am
>>>>> being too negative/scared? Could my approach/attitude possibly be
>>>>> affecting things?
>>>>> I should point out that I have not made a bad decision yet when
>>>>> crossing. My instructor has never had to actually stop me. He/she
>>>>> keeps telling me this, but I still feel as if each street crossing I
>>>>> manage is kind of like pulling teeth so to speak because I am so
>>>>> scared and then I end up standing at the intersection for so long.
>>>>> Because of this, rather than gaining confidence with each street
>>>>> crossing, I am instead still terrified.
>>>>> Are there any federationists who have hearing in only one ear or a
>>>>> similar situation that may not be on this list that could possibly
>>>>> help?
>>>>> Is there anyone else I could contact?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much!
>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-db mailing list
>>>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 21:29:52 -0500
>>>>> From: Alicia Richards <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
>>>>> Message-ID: <B4AA2A3FF6F0425AAD135A7B94D49B66 at aliciab5324f6e>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>> reply-type=original
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, all. I rarely post to this list, as I am blind, but hearing.
>>>>> However, I'd like to respond to Kerri's message. Please forgive the
>>>>> upcoming lengthy message.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri, I'm not quite sure what to suggest here. I will continue to
>>>>> think
>>>>> about it. I personally feel that the LCB, like most blindness centers
>>>> I've
>>>>> known, has no idea how to handle a client who has a hearing impairment
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as blindness. I'm not saying LCB is a bad center. I know it's
>>>>> our
>>>>> best one, actually. You're right about that. I agree with them nine
>>>>> times
>>>>> out of ten. But I think they are wrong on this issue: that your
>>>>> travel
>>>>> instructor is wrong in this case. Seriously, your message makes me
>>>>> want
>>>> to
>>>>> take our Center's sleepshade policy, and apply it to hearing. I'd
>>>>> love
>>>>> to
>>>>> put an earplug in one of your instructor's ears, and see how well
>>>>> he/she
>>>>> could distinguish traffic patterns.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I truly do not believe this is an issue of your having a
>>>>> negative
>>>>> attitude, or being too afraid. Your message clearly shows you have a
>>>>> very
>>>>> positive attitude, and I admire it. You're ready and more than
>>>>> willing
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn, and want to get the best out of your program. Not all students
>>>>> do.
>>>>> I don't think you're afraid of independent travel, but simply of
>>>>> street
>>>>> crossings. And I don't think it's you not trusting yourself. I truly
>>>>> believe it's about your hearing impairment, and you very naturally
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> to be safe. Your fear, in my opinion, is nothing more than inteligent
>>>>> self-preservation, which any normal human would have. I'm glad you've
>>>>> consistently made the right decision about when to cross thus far, but
>>>>> it
>>>>> sounds as if your hearing is not trustworthy enough to be counted on
>>>>> all
>>>> the
>>>>> time, and personally, that's a gamble I would not want to take.
>>>>> Whether
>>>>> parallel or perpendicular traffic is quiet or loud doesn't seem to be
>>>>> relevant, if you're not able to tell which direction it is moving,
>>>>> through
>>>>> no fault of your own, by the way. From my bits of experience with
>>>>> those
>>>> who
>>>>> are hearing impaired and blind, it seems like the biggest mistake
>>>>> hearing
>>>>> people make is to assume that hearing has to do with loud and quiet
>>>>> only.
>>>>> We often don't factor in things like directionality. I know I
>>>>> certainly
>>>>> didn't until I started meeting people who were in situations similar
>>>>> to
>>>>> yours.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure this is not at all what you want to hear, but I'll say
>>>>> it
>>>>> anyway. Most blind and hearing impaired people I know use
>>>>> street-crossing
>>>>> cards if they can't distinguish between perpendicular and parallel
>>>> traffic.
>>>>> It's a card that has writing on it that says you are blind and hearing
>>>>> impaired, and need assistance to cross the street. Yes, I know, on
>>>>> the
>>>>> surface this would seem to go against our philosophy of independence,
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as your desire to be so. But, if you listen to Dr. Jernigan's
>>>> speech,
>>>>> "The Nature of Independence," he basically says that the most
>>>>> independence
>>>>> is obtained by employing whatever alternative techniques you need to
>>>>> in
>>>>> order to live and travel safely and effectively. To me, you using
>>>>> your
>>>>> limited hearing to try and distinguish between perpendicular and
>>>>> parallel
>>>>> traffic is neither safe or effective, as your email shows. I view a
>>>> street
>>>>> crossing card the same way I do a blind person using a white cane.
>>>>> Many
>>>> are
>>>>> resistent at first. But a white cane is needed for blind people to
>>>>> travel
>>>>> safely and effectively. For some blind and hearing impaired people,
>>>>> so
>>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>>> street crossing card. It's simply another alternative technique.
>>>>> Again,
>>>>> I
>>>>> say, I don't think you have a negative attitude or are too afraid.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is where I think the deaf-blind division needs to help educate
>>>> places,
>>>>> especially our own training centers, in regards to people with both
>>>>> blindness and hearing issues. LCB is most likely to listen to fellow
>>>>> Federationists, people they know share their positive philosophy of
>>>>> blindness. Cathy and Rox, if I remember correctly, you both live in
>>>>> Louisiana, and I know you both have great attitudes and philosophy of
>>>>> blindness. Do either of you know anyone or have any connection to
>>>>> LCB?
>>>>> Since you guys live in that state, do you think there's anything you
>>>>> could
>>>>> do here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri, I will continue to think about this, but I really wanted to
>>>>> respond
>>>>> and say that I don't think your problems here have anything to do with
>>>> your
>>>>> attitude or lack of self-confidence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alicia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 23:11:04 -0400
>>>>> From: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Alicia Richards <AliciaNFB at gmail.com>, NFB Deaf-Blind Division
>>>>> Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>
>>>>> <CAOHXxEaCGtahNLUhGkSs_nP19UKNHqKRCDPRw7uLUkhNt+8ing at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Kerri.
>>>>> First, I'm glad you have decided to post and I hope others will offer
>>>>> their perspective as well. As I'm only one person and am not an o and
>>>>> m specialist, I may not be the best person to ask, though I am a
>>>>> person who has gone through some of what you're dealing with now when
>>>>> I was receiving training.
>>>>> Your fear is not what is holding you back, in my opinion. I had the
>>>>> same fear, and I had that fear for a good reason, though the
>>>>> instructors I were working with at the time kept trying to get me to
>>>>> cross a street using my hearing. I am almost totally deaf in my right
>>>>> ear and severe loss in my left. I tell you all of this before I say
>>>>> what I have to say so that you know where I'm coming from. I'm not
>>>>> you, and I am not walking in your shoes, no pun intended, but my
>>>>> experiences are similar. I had most of my struggles in blindness
>>>>> training centers with respect to mobility for the same reason.
>>>>> Only hearing out of one ear is going to make it almost impossible to
>>>>> localize traffic in such a way that you can use the information. Sure,
>>>>> you can try to turn your head to determine what's going on, but with
>>>>> traffic moving fast, by time you've figured out where it may be coming
>>>>> from, it's gone. And while you may be able to detect more quiet or
>>>>> more noisy traffic surges, that will not help you reliably determine
>>>>> where the surge is coming from. Some traffic surges are louder than
>>>>> others, no matter whether they're perpendicular or parallel to you.
>>>>> Think about it this way: if there is a bus that takes off
>>>>> perpendicular to you when the light changes, that's going to be more
>>>>> noisy if only a few quiet vehicles were at that same crossing. You
>>>>> could very easily have the same results if the bus or any other noisy
>>>>> vehicle were parallel to you. I tried to do this as well. I even went
>>>>> so far as to take this theory in to practice and cross against a
>>>>> light. Because, like you, I had the fear and was told by others that I
>>>>> had to get over it. What I learned though is that there is that fear
>>>>> is sometimes there for a very good reason. In the case of analyzing
>>>>> traffic patterns with one ear, I am hear to tell you from both a
>>>>> logical and personal standpoint that there is no safe way to do so. In
>>>>> the words of my friend and an O and M specialist Gene Bourquin, who
>>>>> has over 20 years of experience in working with people who have both
>>>>> vision and hearing loss, with regard to this type of crossing told me
>>>>> the following. "what you're trying to do is both biologically and
>>>>> physically impossible". Audiologists I have been to who are educated
>>>>> on the effects of both vision loss concur.
>>>>> SO what is there to do in this situation? With your hearing, which is
>>>>> much like mine, nothing. Alternative methods of doing this must be
>>>>> looked in to and perhaps an O and M instructor who has experience in
>>>>> working with people who have a combined vision and hearing loss needs
>>>>> to be consulted.
>>>>> For me, the solution was to use a street crossing card. Essentially,
>>>>> the card has a graphic of someone holding someone else?s' elbow and
>>>>> assisting the person with a cane across the street. It also says in
>>>>> text something to the effect that I'm blind and hard of hearing.
>>>>> Please tap me on the shoulder if you can help me cross.
>>>>> Also, if you're with friends who do have normal hearing, you can
>>>>> always walk with them, and just grab an elbow to get across the
>>>>> street. Or, have them verbally tell you when they're crossing. If it's
>>>>> too noisy, have them tap you on the shoulder when they're crossing. A
>>>>> true friend never minds such a minor thing.
>>>>> Is that independence you may be asking? Well, I decide which streets I
>>>>> cross, work a full time job, navigate around my local area I've
>>>>> relocated to without too much difficulty, and have a fairly active
>>>>> life. I had trouble getting used to the idea of someone I don't know
>>>>> helping me across the street, but I've gotten used to it over the
>>>>> years. This is what has worked for me. That doesn't mean it's the best
>>>>> solution for you, and I'm certainly not going to sit here and say
>>>>> that's what you have to do. The only thing I would say is that you
>>>>> must work with your O and M instructor to find an alternative
>>>>> solution. If this individual isn't educated in working with people
>>>>> with both these losses, it's time for that person to reach out to
>>>>> professional resources who do have the experience to garner the
>>>>> knowledge necessary to help you succeed. If he/she cannot do this,
>>>>> perhaps they should stick to working with people who are blind only,
>>>>> as it's a different world for those of us who have a hearing loss to
>>>>> go along with it. You cannot get accurate information from something
>>>>> that isn't able to take in that information accurately. That's so
>>>>> basic I would think most people with any sort of disability education
>>>>> should understand.
>>>>> Finally, I can tell from your writing that you're a very motivated
>>>>> person in your training and that you have the strong urge to succeed.
>>>>> Remember that just because you do not do things the same way as your
>>>>> classmates, as long as you make your own choices and can get from
>>>>> point a to point b, that's all that matters. I'm sorry that this may
>>>>> not be the exact solution you wanted, but I hope you will at least
>>>>> take my idea into consideration. Again, you can't gain confidence on
>>>>> something that you cannot reliably detect due to your ears. Blaming
>>>>> you for this is much like blaming a person who is mainly blind in one
>>>>> eye but has site in the other for not seeing stairs and tripping on
>>>>> them. You can't make them do what their body will not allow them to.
>>>>> Finally, I?d pass these 2 article references on to your instructor. I
>>>>> find it rather unprofessional that he/she didn?t bother to do a bit of
>>>>> research on their own, but that?s another message for another day.
>>>>> While these articles have the word deaf-blind in them, they apply to
>>>>> anyone who has trouble localizing traffic patterns that is blind. This
>>>>> would include you and I.
>>>>> I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your quest for your
>>>>> independence. Remember, just because you?re not always doing things
>>>>> the same exact way as your peers, it does not make you any less of a
>>>>> person. You can still do everything they do and mostly in the same
>>>>> way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> References:
>>>>> Bourquin, E., Hogan, S., & Sauerburger, D. (2010). Street Crossing
>>>>> Signs: Travelers Who are Deaf-Blind Obtaining Assistance when
>>>>> Pedestrians are not Present. AER Journal, 3(4), 139-145.
>>>>> Bourquin, E., & Moon, J. (2008). Studies on Obtaining Assistance by
>>>>> Travelers Who are Deaf-Blind. Journal of Visual Impairment &
>>>>> Blindness, 102(6), 352-361.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/29/12, Alicia Richards <alicianfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello, all. I rarely post to this list, as I am blind, but hearing.
>>>>>> However, I'd like to respond to Kerri's message. Please forgive the
>>>>>> upcoming lengthy message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerri, I'm not quite sure what to suggest here. I will continue to
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> about it. I personally feel that the LCB, like most blindness
>>>>>> centers
>>>> I've
>>>>>> known, has no idea how to handle a client who has a hearing
>>>>>> impairment
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as blindness. I'm not saying LCB is a bad center. I know it's
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> best one, actually. You're right about that. I agree with them nine
>>>>>> times
>>>>>> out of ten. But I think they are wrong on this issue: that your
>>>>>> travel
>>>>>> instructor is wrong in this case. Seriously, your message makes me
>>>>>> want
>>>> to
>>>>>> take our Center's sleepshade policy, and apply it to hearing. I'd
>>>>>> love
>>>> to
>>>>>> put an earplug in one of your instructor's ears, and see how well
>>>>>> he/she
>>>>>> could distinguish traffic patterns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, I truly do not believe this is an issue of your having a
>>>>>> negative
>>>>>> attitude, or being too afraid. Your message clearly shows you have a
>>>> very
>>>>>> positive attitude, and I admire it. You're ready and more than
>>>>>> willing
>>>> to
>>>>>> learn, and want to get the best out of your program. Not all
>>>>>> students
>>>> do.
>>>>>> I don't think you're afraid of independent travel, but simply of
>>>>>> street
>>>>>> crossings. And I don't think it's you not trusting yourself. I
>>>>>> truly
>>>>>> believe it's about your hearing impairment, and you very naturally
>>>> wanting
>>>>>> to be safe. Your fear, in my opinion, is nothing more than
>>>>>> inteligent
>>>>>> self-preservation, which any normal human would have. I'm glad
>>>>>> you've
>>>>>> consistently made the right decision about when to cross thus far,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> sounds as if your hearing is not trustworthy enough to be counted on
>>>>>> all
>>>> the
>>>>>> time, and personally, that's a gamble I would not want to take.
>>>>>> Whether
>>>>>> parallel or perpendicular traffic is quiet or loud doesn't seem to be
>>>>>> relevant, if you're not able to tell which direction it is moving,
>>>> through
>>>>>> no fault of your own, by the way. From my bits of experience with
>>>>>> those
>>>> who
>>>>>> are hearing impaired and blind, it seems like the biggest mistake
>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>> people make is to assume that hearing has to do with loud and quiet
>>>>>> only.
>>>>>> We often don't factor in things like directionality. I know I
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>> didn't until I started meeting people who were in situations similar
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure this is not at all what you want to hear, but I'll
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> anyway. Most blind and hearing impaired people I know use
>>>> street-crossing
>>>>>> cards if they can't distinguish between perpendicular and parallel
>>>> traffic.
>>>>>> It's a card that has writing on it that says you are blind and
>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>> impaired, and need assistance to cross the street. Yes, I know, on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> surface this would seem to go against our philosophy of independence,
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as your desire to be so. But, if you listen to Dr. Jernigan's
>>>> speech,
>>>>>> "The Nature of Independence," he basically says that the most
>>>> independence
>>>>>> is obtained by employing whatever alternative techniques you need to
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> order to live and travel safely and effectively. To me, you using
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> limited hearing to try and distinguish between perpendicular and
>>>>>> parallel
>>>>>> traffic is neither safe or effective, as your email shows. I view a
>>>> street
>>>>>> crossing card the same way I do a blind person using a white cane.
>>>>>> Many
>>>> are
>>>>>> resistent at first. But a white cane is needed for blind people to
>>>> travel
>>>>>> safely and effectively. For some blind and hearing impaired people,
>>>>>> so
>>>> is a
>>>>>> street crossing card. It's simply another alternative technique.
>>>>>> Again,
>>>> I
>>>>>> say, I don't think you have a negative attitude or are too afraid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is where I think the deaf-blind division needs to help educate
>>>> places,
>>>>>> especially our own training centers, in regards to people with both
>>>>>> blindness and hearing issues. LCB is most likely to listen to fellow
>>>>>> Federationists, people they know share their positive philosophy of
>>>>>> blindness. Cathy and Rox, if I remember correctly, you both live in
>>>>>> Louisiana, and I know you both have great attitudes and philosophy of
>>>>>> blindness. Do either of you know anyone or have any connection to
>>>>>> LCB?
>>>>>> Since you guys live in that state, do you think there's anything you
>>>> could
>>>>>> do here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerri, I will continue to think about this, but I really wanted to
>>>> respond
>>>>>> and say that I don't think your problems here have anything to do
>>>>>> with
>>>> your
>>>>>> attitude or lack of self-confidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> End of nfb-db Digest, Vol 42, Issue 41
>>>>> **************************************
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