[NFB-DB] more on captioning.

Tue Sep 8 04:01:11 UTC 2020

Hello:
 To those who are asking, the cost of CART for Zoom conferencing is $90 -
$200 per hour plus admin costs.  Google Hang-outs is very different from
Zoom. The accessibility in Google needs a lot of improvement before it can
be trusted as reliable. Additionally, Google apps are not accessible to
many Braille displays.
 Maurice, I don't agree that accessibility should be a State-by-state
problem-solving project.  Accessibility should be an organization-wide
standard with a National policy on the issue. If the ACB can make their
organization accessible to all, then please enlighten me as to why this is
not a priority of the NFB?  Furthermore, if you are going to advocate for
accessibility for the Blind with the general public, then how is it you can
expect those outside of the NFB to make changes when the organization isn't
making changes for its own members? There is something terribly wrong with
this picture. Change does start locally, but in order to get those outside
to want to work with us, then we must first all be in agreement ourselves
with what we want and need and be practicing what we are preaching  within
our organization. "Do as I say - not as I do." does NOT work. If I was a
politician and you told me that I needed to support legislation for voter
accessibility, and I found out that you have members who can not vote at
their local chapter elections because the organization won't provide CART
to make the meeting accessible so they CAN vote, I would be reluctant to
help you. "Why should I help you when you are not helping your own people."
would be my question.

Kind Regards,
Tracie Inman

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:32 PM Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

>   I’m confused by this.  If NFB was concerned about privacy, then why was
> every session I attended
>
> Being recorded?  Not only that, but it was required that we be told at the
> beginning that the session was being recorded.  The biggest issue I’ve
> heard with CART is its expense.  And I don’t know how valid of an argument
> that is, because I don’t know how much it costs.  Here’s the other thing.
> I believe that with whatever the platform is for Google, it has close
> captioning built in, although I think you have to have the proper type of
> device to access it.  And I don’t know if this is actually accessible for
> people who are Deafblind.  I want to say there was an article about it in
> The Navigator, which is the newsletter put out by the Colorado Commission
> for the Deaf, Hard of Hearing and Deafblind.  I don’t personally use any
> kind of close captioning personally.  But as the current president of our
> division here in Colorado, I try to have at least some knowledge of this
> kind of thing.  I’m hoping that we will have good accommodations for our
> own state convention.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Doula
>
> *From:* NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of *Scott Davert
> via NFB-DB
> *Sent:* Monday, September 7, 2020 6:50 PM
> *To:* Jennifer Woods <jem4ever at icloud.com>
> *Cc:* Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>; NFB Deaf-Blind Division
> Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NFB-DB] more on captioning.
>
>
>
> Hi Jennifer.
>
> I attended both, as did the author of the below referenced article. The
> difference was that, with the NFB convention, not all sessions that were
> supposed to be captioned were. The other issue was for slower braille
> readers. The captioning on Zoom, well, it zooms by. There is no easy way to
> review it. With the CART used by the ACB convention, there weren't any
> missing sessions, nor did the author of the article. The advantage to CART
> is that you can mostly read at your own pace, and that you can even see
> what was said prior to your entering the meeting. Last I knew, the NFB is
> saying that transcripts can't be provided due to privacy concerns. ACB has
> no problem. The fact that the NFB is citing concerns of the info being
> shared online as a reason literally made me laugh out loud. Anyone with
> some iPhone knowledge can simply log into Zoom on their phone, put it on
> speaker, and record the entire Zoom call. People could also easily record
> the meeting if the convention is in-person very discretely by using their
> Apple Watch or smart phone.  Anyway, that's where things are as of now.
> There is work behind the scenes being done to try and make for a better
> convention experience for DB attendees next year. I'm hoping it will go
> much more smoothly.
>
>
>
> I hope this info is helpful,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Jennifer Woods <jem4ever at icloud.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> How did you find out about ACB? What types of accommodations did they
> provide?
>
> My challenge is I am a slow Braille reader and I tend to do better with
> pro tactile ASL.  I am not sure how that worked virtually with the
> conference this year?
>
> I have never attended a conference for either the NFB or ACB.
>
> Jennifer Woods
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2020, at 1:40 PM, Scott Davert via NFB-DB <nfb-db fbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Maurice and thank you for your email.
>
> Let me start by saying that the NFB is required, by law, to provide
> communication access. I'm not a lawyer, but this issue specifically has
> been discussed with several folks who are. if a state is providing Spanish
> translation, which is not required by law as far as I know, surely they can
> afford to provide access. Whether that be through local or national
> resources is something those in Baltimore need to resolve. You said on
> another list that "blind lives matter". Ok, sure, I guess if you want to go
> down that road... So if blind lives matter, as you say, what about
> DeafBlind lives? Surely, if a state does not have the financial resources
> to provide equal access, national can help? Again, surely if they have the
> funds to support Spanish translation, they can find the funds to provide
> CART? Also, isn't it sad that blindness publications are taking notice that
> ACB is providing equal access correctly where the NFB is not? Have a look
> at this article: https://afb.org/aw/21/8/17142
>
> Could that be seen as grounds for a lawsuit? I don't know, but I'd sure
> not want to find out. Essentially, the message the DeafBlind community is
> getting is this. ACB cares more about our access needs and demonstrated
> this by provided a much higher quality experience during national
> convention. I understand the excuse that it was their first time doing a
> virtual convention, but they had an extra week to prepare than ACB did. And
> yet, here we are. Ultimately, it's the responsibility of those choosing the
> platform to ensure equal access.
>
>
>
> Just my perspective,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2020, at 3:02 PM, maurice mines via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Good morning, I'm responding to the person who expressed concerns about
> whether Zoom communications has native captioning. They do but it's not
> what we would consider captioning. It's more a transcript instead of human
> provided captioning if this makes sense. I've read what serves as
> captioning directly because it comes out in a transcript that the meeting
> provider chooses this unfortunately you hardly get a real sense of what
> went on in the meeting. So this I have significant problems with the
> default captioning the way the company believes it should be done.
>
>
>
> Your comments of course about asking us on the board to take this up
> certainly have been I hope read by him my colleagues on the board I know I
> have read them and I know we have discussed it in the past. I'm going to
> leave it to this list administrator first VP to chime in where she thinks
> it is appropriate. As far as cost go, I think she once told us in a recent
> meeting, that I thought she said roughly hundred dollars. But I do not know
> what time frame she was discussing or at least I can't remember what it was
> exactly. It was a discussion we had leading up to the 2020 virtual national
> convention. Like I mentioned earlier a lot of us on the board who read this
> list and we do tend to take trends to heart when we have board only
> discussions. Please be assured that we don't overlook anything.
>
>
>
> As I suggested yesterday that may help you if you sit down with your state
> president and or members of your state board and discuss this issue within
> your state affiliate. Because I think that's the best way to handle this.
> Yes we can help, but I think a lot of this must start at the state level. I
> hope this explanation of things helps and I hope your Sunday is going along
> smoothly. Be well everyone and stay safe.
>
> --
> Maurice Mines, Board Member National Federation of the Blind Deafblind
> Division Email: board4 at nfbdeaf-blind.org Website: www.nfbdeaf-blind.org
> Live the life you want. The National Federation of the Blind Deafblind
> Division, a proud division of the National Federation of the Blind, is a
> community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the
> nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the
> lives they want.
>
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-- 
*Tracie Inman*
*Freedom Now disAbility Empowerment LLC*
*freedomnowaccess.com <http://freedomnowaccess.com>*
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