[NFB-DB] ASL Instruction for Deaf Blind

Sat Oct 30 19:58:19 UTC 2021

> 
Renee,
A lot of what you say here is so much my experience. I feel like professionals who work with deafblind have 2 boxes and they are going to stuff you into one of those 2 like it or not.
You are either a. HH and blind/low vision in which case you *will* use hearing aids/CIs, communicate orally, maybe use an SSP who is hearing and communicates using your FM system/orally and you read braille and use a screen reader.
Or you are deaf, either born deaf or lost hearing as a child, in which case you get aSL, and TASL and PT training if you need it and they will help you maximize your sight with screen magnifiers and braille is a last resort.
If you are like me, born blind and hearing and insist on ASL the "professionals" are lining up to tell you, usually in a very infantilizing way, how wrong you are, how it will never work,, and why don't you just get an implant you darling deluded little sweetheart and please go back to your corner and stop asking for these things which you actually don't need and which you will never get to have.
The same can be said for people who are raised with ASL and who want to improve their braille. They are told all kind of negative messages about how they will never get fast or proficient and it's ok, darling, we can just get an ssp/interpreter to read it *for* you and sign it to you... don't worry your sweet head.
None of these thing actually does anyone any service.
I, like Renee run my own business. I have been taking care of myself and others since I was a child raised with 3 younger sisters and parents/family who worked and I was expected to take on household tasks. I can cook and clean and do my own laundry. 
Then we get to the part where if you do anything they feel is "dangerous" for example, wood working, using an outdoor charcoal grill, training your own service dog, welding... the list is endless, they really really really do not like that because not only are you being ridiculous and behaving dangerously, you are also setting a bad example for other deafblind people that they, too could want to have hobbies which could... give them booboos! That is very bad! 
It's infantilizing, condescending and custodial and when I point this out I just get told that "not everyone is like me and I need to stop making people think they can do things they can't ... " basically to sit down and shut up. Which is why I have stopped being involved in the greater deafblind community altogether because I've found that in that situation it is the "deafblind professionals" 99. Percent of whom are sighted/hearing who are actually in power. They do a good job of mouthing the right words about how you can do *anything* you set your mind to, ra ra team! Until you actually... do something they think you shouldn't be doing and then look out. Haha.
I've pretty much decided I'm here to live my life for me, I don't care what anyone says, If someone wants to learn from me or if they have something I could learn from them I'm happy for personal relationships, but if you put me in a place like HKNC I wouldn't last a day lol.
It has it's place absolutely I just wish it had leadership that actually stood behind the platitudes they mouth.
Now that I've got myself into trouble I'm off to make applesauce. Haha.

Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
Soleil, Rowan, Phoenix
https://sneakeezebra.wordpress.com/ 
pawpower4me at gmail.com

On Oct 30, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Renee Walker via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

I always read here, but I almost never respond. I think I will chime in here because of my own struggles with ASL, experience with HKNC, isolation, etc. 

First off, I have been HOH sometime around birth and deaf in speech range since age 8, and profoundly deaf in all ranges somewhere after that with progressive hearing loss. I was night blind in childhood noticed first on a trick or treat night at just about kindergarten age where my parents let me walk to the door alone for the first time. I remember distinctly noticing that without them guiding me that I wasn’t sure where to walk and did so slowly and then tripping over the steps that I didn’t know where there. The porch light was very dim to me. Vision loss was progressing, but I didn’t notice much until in my 30’s because my hearing loss was severe enough that I used various tactics to make sure I knew what was going on around me at all times like not only lip reading but scanning and even physically turning around frequently to see if anyone was speaking to me. I often guessed right, but I often guessed wrong which could be embarrassing, but I would ignore it. 

I didn’t learn ASL as a child despite having a mother who was deaf and an Uncle who was also deaf. They preferred HOH, but their losses were profound. They grew up in a time when deaf people were hidden away and even institutionalized. That actually still happened in my state until 1992 when the insane hospital was closed, and many deaf people were released for the first time in their lives. These fears led them to work hard to disguise their hearing loss as much as possible and thrive in the hearing world without ASL and that was how I was raised. I fell in love and wanting to learn ASL at an early age, but teachers were not around in my rural area, and I never saw a Deaf person anywhere. In college, I took an introductory class for the first time, but there was only one, and it was taught by a hearing person. I did remember what little I learned, though. 

Fast forward to learning I had Usher Syndrome Type III and my months at HKNC. HKNC was not geared for a person like me who had already earned several degrees including an Ed.S. in Education and working on her Ph.D. until blindness hit and was a working wife, mother, and teacher with lots of community service activities including volunteer paramedic and scouting over the years.

At HKNC, I found that they were reluctant to teach me ASL because I came from a hearing world experience, but what they didn’t consider was the impact to my independence ASL would have in medical, work, and legal settings with an interpreter. Without ASL, I do not have access to any information from the doctors, co-workers, or legal professionals. All interaction is made to someone who cares for me and left to “fill me in later” when decisions have already been made for me. I know braille which allows for some typing to me while I read on a braille display, but I’m a slow braille reader despite my teachers saying I’m better than most who are late learners. Still, it is slow enough that professionals don’t want to deal with me and resort to conversations with my spouse or friend who brought me, and decisions are made for me. I fought for ASL instruction and took it on myself to learn it as best I could while there. Prior to going to HKNC, I had tried to get instruction at home through the various state agencies and local agencies and community courses. NO One wanted to take on someone DeafBlind to teach ASL. I had one Deaf lady at the state hearing impaired agency, who finally after failing to find someone else, came and taught me some basics which I appreciated. That was all before COVID, though. 

Now, HKNC talks about the immersion and social interaction with others while learning, even once I was getting tactile ASL instruction, the native Deaf who were now becoming DeafBlind had little to no interest in signing with me who was just learning at that time. There were a few late-learner signers there at the time who tried, but we were all feeling the same feeling of being outcasts that we struggled to share ASL with each other, especially when the Deaf would see us and rudely correct us when wrong and shun us more. So, though, I am glad I went to HKNC for months, it was a challenge to leave my family, my jobs, my life (I actually continued teaching virtually because my school is small and needed me) to take the tasks. I will say that I learned braille from scratch while there and because it is a solitary task, I learned it quickly and well during all the down time at HKNC. I just can’t say that my ASL instruction was nearly at the same par. The center also put way too much emphasis during that time on daily living skills which I already knew well and had been doing even as a newly DeafBlind person for a year or more before getting funding to go. Little of what I learned there really needed to take place so far from home or away from my life to gain that speed. Even if I needed a short-term residential program, more regional or local for more intense study on just what I needed for a shorter term would have worked better for me, and probably would for others. 

Now, I wish I had ways to practice my ASL. The Pandemic has isolated me more. I do have some residual vision now that I didn’t have before due to a surgery that corrected a secondary problem, so I am looking for virtual ways to practice. I still want ProTactile ASL instruction, but that may have to wait. I have being doing just tactile ASL meaning, ASL hand over hand with a few modifications to allow for better tactile recognition. It is ok, but I really want ProTactile ASL training. Sigh… It may not happen since no one here in my state seems to think it is important. So, I will try to keep my ASL skills up with virtual connections IF I can find them. I am looking for ASL signers willing to do Zoom or VP calls to practice, but finding people willing to do so and do so patiently with a legally blind, out of practice ASL signer isn’t easy especially of those close to home. I know so very few Deaf and none that want to have anything to do with me. When I went to Deaf activities, they only would chat with me through my tactile interpreter despite the interpreter trying to get them to sign directly with me. 

That’s the difficulties we as DeafBlind deal with, and I really don’t have an answer. I can only say I know what you are going through daily.

Sorry that this is long, but none of you have ever heard of me, so I gave some background. Thanks for reading if you got this far. Smile.

In The Shadow of The Master Teacher, Jesus Christ,
Renée K. Walker, Ed.S.
Principal/CEO
Wynfield Christian Academy
DeafBlind Hope
143 Williamson Dr.
Macon, GA 31210
Monroe County
(978) 563-9663
Fax: Email documents to rkwalker at wynfieldca.org or mail
(478) 845-2294 (Deaf IP Relay direct line)

On Oct 29, 2021, at 7:46 PM, Robin Diane Graves via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi All,

Thank you all so much for your input on this topic. I’m not quite sure what I was expecting or how big of an undertaking it would be, but I do work full time, and so would not be able to spend months at a training center.

I am really hoping that my hearing won’t decrease any more than it already has over the years, but I just though the skill would be an excellent one to have if worst came to worst. I wonder if we could have someone come to one of our seminars at the national convention to at least provide some kind of introductory overview. Not sure; just a thought.

Diane Graves

From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 3:55 PM
To: 'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List' <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Pringle <Jonathan.pringle at hknc.org>
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] ASL Instruction for Deaf Blind

Here is the link to search by state for HKNC staff / services

https://www.helenkeller.org/hknc/nationwide-services#toc-2

Respectfully,
Jonathan Pringle
Helen Keller National Center
DeafBlind Specialist
516.417.1165 Direct/text | 520.829.9103 VP
Jonathan.pringle at hknc.org
www.helenkeller.org/hknc

Have a suggestion or feedback to share? HKNCfieldcomments at hknc.org

While HKNC’s New York facilities are partially closed during this COVID-19 time, we continue to provide virtual assessment and training services, peer learning groups, professional learning opportunities, information and referral. We encourage you to contact us by email or phone/VP.

For Individuals with combined vision and hearing loss: To help improve the quality and quantity of services to individuals who are deaf-blind, please complete our National Deaf-Blind registry form at http://www.helenkeller.org/hknc.

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From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ineko Gary via NFB-DB
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 2:12 PM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Ineko Gary <rubiigary at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] ASL Instruction for Deaf Blind

I think that they should hire someone in all five states to have a program for people who are deaf blind who wants to learn how to do tactile sign language. Because a lot of people who are deaf blind cannot see the interpreters hands. It’ll make it so easy so we don’t have to travel to a center.

Ineko 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2021, at 2:10 PM, heather Albright via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Yes there is no support hear in San Antonio or south Texas region. The last support was up in Austin and that has gone on the way side, thanks to the governor’s budget cuts. Heather  

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Tracie Inman via NFB-DB
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:55 AM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Cc: Tracie Inman
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] ASL Instruction for Deaf Blind

Hey Marsha: 
 Tracie here.  HKNC certainly has a lot of good qualities. However, I do agree they need an overhaul.  Maybe the Deafblind Community should come together and push for hKNC to improve the quality of their services, make necessary changes, and become more client focused.  
  I would be very careful with hiring instructors.. Many ASL instructors do not have adequate knowledge of TASLand PT (ProTactile). It would be necessary to locate an instructor who is well versed in both in order to gain the most knowledge and skill for effective communication.  I agree that immersing in the Deafblind Community is a great way to gain knowledge, communication skills, cultural knowledge, and become part of the community itself.  
  There is a need for more Deafblind events where we can all come together, network, and provide support for one another.  ]

Kind Regards,
Tracie Inman

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 9:42 AM Marsha Drenth via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
I did attend HKNC, yes it was a good experience for me but it had alot of major issues. Instruction at HKNC goes at a snail pace. I had to fight for every single thing I needed for example ASL, tech, and more. They are very paternalistic and although many of us who go there have already lived on our own, worked, had families, and dealt with many adult experiences; they are so cautious and won’t allow anyone to do anything outside of the prescribed model its stifling. Again, I learned much more then what I would have in a short amount of time then if I had not gone, but it comes with alot of considerations. 

If you want to learn ASL, immerse yourself in the DeafBlind community, not just those who are hard of hearing blind, but those who are deaf and use ASL. Immerse yourself in the hard of hearing communities. Take classes at the community college and or local deafhearing communication center. Or pay for private lessons. If there is a will there is a way. 

Marsha drenth  
Sent with my IPhone  
Please note that this email communication has been sent using my iPhone. As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as necessary. 

On Oct 29, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Lisa Ferris via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

I have wanted to learn ASL, too. But I had always heard that HKNC is not really that proactive at teaching ASL. Also, not everyone is in a position to move away from home for a year, just to learn something that most people can learn by taking a class once or twice a week for a few hours. I have also heard the downtime at HKNC is ridiculous. Why doesn’t HKNC have a network of tutors that could work with DB people locally? I am not saying that center training can’t be beneficial to some, but I’ve done all my blindness trading in all areas except ASL/Protactile years ago. It would be totally disruptive to my life and a waste of time to do it all over again. (Also impossible, because I’m on the transplant waitlist.) It just seems to me that HKNC could offer more local or regional specific trading, but it always seems like all the regional reps want to do is get you to go to the center. It’s frustrating.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 28, 2021, at 7:38 PM, heather Albright via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Yes, I would see if voc rehab will send you to the center to teach you. I think you have to be tested and have doctor’s notes to allow you to attend. I think it is either a 6 to 9 months at the center. That is what I heard from others who did attend. I wish you luck. Heather 

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Robin Diane Graves via NFB-DB
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 6:55 PM
To: 'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'
Cc: rdgraves2007 at gmail.com
Subject: [NFB-DB] ASL Instruction for Deaf Blind

Good Evening Listers,

I am totally blind with a severe hearing important, and I would like to become fluent in ASL and tactile signing. Does anyone have an idea as to where I might gain such instruction? I am in the state of Indiana.

Diane Graves
President
NFB of Indiana 

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-- 
Tracie Inman

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