[NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion

Sun Jul 16 02:43:03 UTC 2023

Hello Stuart,

Thanks for the feedback and support.

No, I did not try IP relay, so I can't give feedback on that or  how the assistants behaved. To be quite honest, my sole interest was checking out the transcripts. I do not have the stamina to actually participate in a Zoom meeting, though I am still interested in the content and, even after the fact, a nice transcript would help me.

I stopped using the relay some 20 years ago, mostly because of the time difference with my old pals on the east coast. I attended meetings here until Covid arrived, and very suddenly faced this issue with remote meetings. My wife - my favorite interpreter - doesn't have the stamina anymore either. I'll be 82 in a few weeks.

But I do have a big mouth and I am not shy about using it, and I do, do, do have a very keen interest in trying to fix these things. Advocating does not  necessarily mean advocating for one's own needs. I am mostly content with "me".

While puttering around on this issue I went to Captel, found a contact email captel at captel.com and wrote to that. Possibly the wrong email but to paraphrase Will Rogers - I don't know anything, I only know what I read on the Internet.

I did make one top-of-my-head suggestion to T-Mobile - create a static online transcript for each Zoom or similar meeting, where only the bottom of the transcript is updated on an ongoing basis. Users can read anything above the insertion point with complete navigation, and the content they have access to is continually updated at the bottom. It was a wild idea with no knowledge of the programming required, but at least someone will (?) take a look at some sort of solution.

I hope that advocates for accessibility will undertake the challenge of "sticking up for the underdog" even within theor own group. I have never had any personal use of hearing aids - meaning they have never benefited me personally - but year after year I have testified, in person and in writing, advocating for insurance coverage of hearing aids. (so far, no luck in Hawaii) I do not use ASL myself, but I have for years supported legislation ASL as an officially recognized language - and THAT passed this year.

I do hope that this newly-constituted organization will commit to supporting the needs of all who meet the definition of deaf and blind, even if the leadership does not have a direct affinity with those in need. I also hope the new leadership is, and will remain, open to respectful consideration of ideas they might not themselves share.

Rod

----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB  <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
To:  nfb-db at nfbnet.org
CC: stuartsalvador at gmail.com
Date: Saturday, July 15, 2023 1:42 pm
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion

>
>
> Hi Rod, Stuart here.
I agree this is important.
For IP Relay, I think having the Call Assistant try to be mute instead
of talking and explaining relay or speaking their usual protocol might
be the biggest challenge on that. I'll email Keith also to let them
know I'm on topic with that also and suggest what they can do for
teleconference situations to train call assistants. Were you able to
use IP Relay OK outside calls? Did you need to turn off the
punctuation syntax to read at a reasonable rate? I find that helps,
though it can make some things ambiguous as to whether it is the call
assistant or the person on the other line speaking, especially since
there is no normal punctuation for sentence structure in English on IP
Relay.
I'm going to email Hamilton CapTel today and see if I can get a named
contact for you. Were you able to register with them?
I am able to do this, but it's not ideal and it took time for me to
learn how to get it all working adequately so if I figure out any
better way to do it to participate I will advise. Usually right now I
use Captionmate for conference calls I sit on without really saying
anything, but that's only accessible by app right now on iOS and it
requires an iPhone even if you see it through iPad for Braille output.
Please let me know if I can help any other way and I'll let you (and
anyone else who may be trying to find out on here) know if I get
something better from IP Relay on a solution (maybe a standard way to
start the call for teleconferencing and to have the call assistant
behave accordingly) or if I get a good personal contact at Hamilton
CapTel. The latter is in beta again so invitation-only so they should
be open to feedback at this time from users. I'll try to strike while
the iron is hot!
EOM

On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 4:31?PM Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB
<nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
> Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could access such meetings. I said I would research this.
>
> I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark, Director of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
>
> First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille access, and that they are "working on it."
>
> The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of situation would be to:
>
> 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with meeting information;
> 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
>
> This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least one could have a transcript.
>
> I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came up with the following:
>
> 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to 400 words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned braille at a very young age.
>
> 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
>
> 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted, formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille device is necessarily much slower.
>
> Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope of participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just too fast.
>
> However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the meeting by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I have yet to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward: One has to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the host; the user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript and how the transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
>
> Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is only available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope, that is at noon eastern Time - too early.
>
> One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with speech disabilities. Not sure why.
>
> I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is not available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work. (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
>
> This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
>
> I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
>
> OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for extremely difficult.
>
> Consider these two possibilities:
>
> 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
>
> 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
>
> Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the  ones with the greatest needs.
>
> Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the list of topics to be considered?
>
> Rod
>
>
>
>
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