[NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion

Sun Jul 16 16:33:16 UTC 2023

Hi Rod, Stuart here.

OK, whatever the next Zoom public meeting will be, I'll get on myself and
attempt to get through the IP Relay teleconference coaching the call
assistant to not do the relay announcement or explanation and try to get a
live transcript through them on my Mantis Q40 and see how that works out.
I'll use my Captionmate at the same time on a second line and see how it
compares to what I normally use then I'll send you the completed
transcripts from both so you can see the differences in each. Usually you
can have on Zoom meeting ID connected to audio and then a call-in ID
connected by phone alone. Sometimes I have to do this in order to get one
that works right, and usually I'd use Hamilton CapTel for that in recent
events, but IP Relay is publicly available without any app whereas I know
Hamilton CapTel (who did used to have a public version of their product
back in 2018 before they stopped supporting it) is still currently in beta
so they aren't technically public.

Thanks for your help raising this to Scott, Jonathan! I hope Scott may have
some additional insights. (Did Scott leave this list after the debacle last
month where he was questioning why NFB was scrapping accessibility for
members who couldn't attend in person? I'm not sure how to see who is
active on the list at any given time as I think the list of emails is
somehow secret or private.)

EOM

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:19 AM Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB <
nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello I am including Scott Davert, with the HKNC Tech Research and
> Innovation Center.  Scott is definitely my go to person with questions like
> this
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> *Jonathan Pringle* | Regional Representative for Region Eight
> he/him/his
> Helen Keller National Center
> ------------------------------
>
> Tucson, AZ 85653
> (m) 1-516-4171165
> jpringle at helenkeller.org
> helenkeller.org
>
> [image: Helen Keller National Center Logo]
>
> HKS is committed to making documents accessible and usable to
> participants, the HKS team and stakeholders.
> We recognize that accessibility is fluid and users are diverse.
> Therefore, even though the document may meet accessibility guidelines,
> there may be usability issues .
> If you have any questions or concerns about a document you receive please
> contact us
> > On Jul 15, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB <
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille
> access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using
> CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could
> access such meetings. I said I would research this.
> >
> > I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have
> extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark, Director
> of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and
> Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
> >
> > First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille
> access, and that they are "working on it."
> >
> > The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of situation
> would be to:
> >
> > 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with
> meeting information;
> > 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a
> transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
> >
> > This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least
> one could have a transcript.
> >
> > I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came
> up with the following:
> >
> > 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted
> reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille
> reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to
> 400 words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned
> braille at a very young age.
> >
> > 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is
> subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
> >
> > 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted,
> formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille
> device is necessarily much slower.
> >
> > Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current
> braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope
> of participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just too
> fast.
> >
> > However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the meeting
> by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I have yet
> to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward: One has
> to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the host; the
> user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript and how
> the transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
> >
> > Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is only
> available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be
> 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope,
> that is at noon eastern Time - too early.
> >
> > One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with
> speech disabilities. Not sure why.
> >
> > I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting
> held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is not
> available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work.
> (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
> >
> > This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our
> Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the
> University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation
> Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
> >
> > I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a
> nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
> >
> > OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to
> remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for
> extremely difficult.
> >
> > Consider these two possibilities:
> >
> > 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of
> hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the
> ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
> >
> > 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they
> lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
> >
> > Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks
> with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no
> longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for
> improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who
> are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble
> doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the  ones
> with the greatest needs.
> >
> > Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the
> list of topics to be considered?
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NFB-DB mailing list
> > NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/jonathan.pringle%40hknc.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230716/0ae92def/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: hknclogo_cedfcdbb-98bc-4727-8aac-59c2400ea528.png
Type: image/png
Size: 4910 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230716/0ae92def/attachment.png>