[NFB-DB] Braille Access and Inclusion NFB-DB Digest, Vol 153, Issue 11
Rod and Ele Macdonald
erjmacdonald at gmail.com
Tue Jul 18 00:05:22 UTC 2023
Thank you, Cathy, for including me. I am available if this is via email, and I nominate Ms. Cathy Miller to join also.
Rod
----- Original Message -----
From: Cathy Miller via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
CC: guillcat at gmail.com
Date: Monday, July 17, 2023 3:18 am
Subject: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and Inclusion RE: NFB-DB Digest, Vol 153, Issue 11
>
>
> Good morning DB Friends,
>
> While we're busy organizing ourselves, I suggest that Stuart Salvador, Rod
> McDonald, and Scott Davert (perhaps others not named) consider forming a
> committee to continue studying this problem.What talent! What dedication
> and commitment to working on a problem that would benefit so many of us!
> You guys Rock!
>
> Cathy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of
> nfb-db-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 7:00 AM
> To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> Subject: NFB-DB Digest, Vol 153, Issue 11
>
> Send NFB-DB mailing list submissions to
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NFB-DB digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Jonathan Pringle)
> 2. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Stuart Salvador)
> 3. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Scott Davert)
> 4. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Stuart Salvador)
> 5. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Scott Davert)
> 6. Re: I am asking for. Suggestions, and making shore that all
> have my contact info? (Frank Skogsberg)
> 7. Re: I am asking for. Suggestions, and making shore that all
> have my contact info? (Robert Stigile)
> 8. Re: Braille Access and inclusion (Rod and Ele Macdonald)
> 9. Re: Adding Hearing Enhancement to NFB App (Stuart Salvador)
> 10. Re: Adding Hearing Enhancement to NFB App
> (rockyhart1221 at gmail.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 22:45:10 +0000
> From: Jonathan Pringle <jpringle at helenkeller.org>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>, Scott
> Davert <sdavert at helenkeller.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID: <EBB34E2C-1155-4CC2-B71D-4AED5CD83BB5 at helenkeller.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 11:33:16 -0500
> From: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Scott Davert <sdavert at helenkeller.org>, Jonathan Pringle
> <jpringle at helenkeller.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID:
> <CAEe15j-sKtA8VgeBRGmMMopDGmXf_w=BOcfXyoh566wjOEd2QQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Rod, Stuart here.
>
> OK, whatever the next Zoom public meeting will be, I'll get on myself and
> attempt to get through the IP Relay teleconference coaching the call
> assistant to not do the relay announcement or explanation and try to get a
> live transcript through them on my Mantis Q40 and see how that works out.
> I'll use my Captionmate at the same time on a second line and see how it
> compares to what I normally use then I'll send you the completed
> transcripts from both so you can see the differences in each. Usually you
> can have on Zoom meeting ID connected to audio and then a call-in ID
> connected by phone alone. Sometimes I have to do this in order to get one
> that works right, and usually I'd use Hamilton CapTel for that in recent
> events, but IP Relay is publicly available without any app whereas I know
> Hamilton CapTel (who did used to have a public version of their product
> back in 2018 before they stopped supporting it) is still currently in beta
> so they aren't technically public.
>
> Thanks for your help raising this to Scott, Jonathan! I hope Scott may have
> some additional insights. (Did Scott leave this list after the debacle last
> month where he was questioning why NFB was scrapping accessibility for
> members who couldn't attend in person? I'm not sure how to see who is
> active on the list at any given time as I think the list of emails is
> somehow secret or private.)
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:19?AM Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB <
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello I am including Scott Davert, with the HKNC Tech Research and
> Innovation Center. Scott is definitely my go to person with questions
> like
> this
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> *Jonathan Pringle* | Regional Representative for Region Eight
> he/him/his
> Helen Keller National Center
> ------------------------------
>
> Tucson, AZ 85653
> (m) 1-516-4171165
> jpringle at helenkeller.org
> helenkeller.org
>
> [image: Helen Keller National Center Logo]
>
> HKS is committed to making documents accessible and usable to
> participants, the HKS team and stakeholders.
> We recognize that accessibility is fluid and users are diverse.
> Therefore, even though the document may meet accessibility guidelines,
> there may be usability issues .
> If you have any questions or concerns about a document you receive please
> contact us
> > On Jul 15, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB <
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille
> access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using
> CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could
> access such meetings. I said I would research this.
> >
> > I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have
> extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark,
> Director
> of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and
> Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
> >
> > First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille
> access, and that they are "working on it."
> >
> > The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of situation
> would be to:
> >
> > 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with
> meeting information;
> > 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a
> transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
> >
> > This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least
> one could have a transcript.
> >
> > I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came
> up with the following:
> >
> > 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted
> reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille
> reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to
> 400 words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned
> braille at a very young age.
> >
> > 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is
> subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
> >
> > 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted,
> formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille
> device is necessarily much slower.
> >
> > Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current
> braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope
> of participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just
> too
> fast.
> >
> > However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the meeting
> by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I have yet
> to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward: One has
> to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the host;
> the
> user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript and how
> the transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
> >
> > Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is only
> available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be
> 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope,
> that is at noon eastern Time - too early.
> >
> > One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with
> speech disabilities. Not sure why.
> >
> > I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting
> held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is
> not
> available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work.
> (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
> >
> > This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our
> Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the
> University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation
> Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
> >
> > I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a
> nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
> >
> > OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to
> remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for
> extremely difficult.
> >
> > Consider these two possibilities:
> >
> > 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of
> hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the
> ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
> >
> > 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they
> lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
> >
> > Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks
> with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no
> longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for
> improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who
> are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble
> doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the ones
> with the greatest needs.
> >
> > Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the
> list of topics to be considered?
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NFB-DB mailing list
> > NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/jonathan.pringle%40hknc.
> org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:02:08 -0400
> From: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
> To: Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID: <181202B1-6666-4053-8054-BC0B8FDAA489 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 12:32:10 -0500
> From: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID:
> <CAEe15j9=rOJGDQtiPmybXkUWsWoLs3WU+4yN4qosj2H6az2BxQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> HI Scott, Stuart here.
>
> Thanks! I have not used CART before. I will try to use IP Relay more
> with a point of interaction on a conference call/meeting and see what
> happens. I have not personally tried because it scared me as to how it
> would be received by those in the meeting considering that pacing and
> interruption are a big factor in how well spoken words are received in
> the context of a meeting. When possible, I have always tried to speak
> (for better or worse), even when my voice was not functioning as I'd
> prefer.
>
> Perhaps simply a case of putting one's foot in it and hoping for the best!
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 12:03?PM Scott Davert via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello from vacation. Thus my email is not associated with HKNC...
> IP Relay is what I usually use in the case of Zoom meetings. Stuart seems
> to already have done this in the past with varrying degrees of success. the
> only other option, which is reliable, costs a lot of money. This would be
> using CART through with 1capapp plug in. It works best when sent to a web
> page. however, that requires you to pay a paptioner for the meeting, and
> rates start at like $60 an hour. The challenge with all of this though comes
> in when you wish to also participate. This becomes a very big challenge when
> using IP Relay. It can be done, but the relay operator must interrupt the
> meeting for you to add a comment. When I am able to get CART support, and
> need to participate, I often use 2 devices paired to the same braille
> display. One which displays CART, the other controls Zoom itself so that I
> can do things like raise my hand, mute and unmute my audio and so forth.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 12:35, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hi Rod, Stuart here.
>
> OK, whatever the next Zoom public meeting will be, I'll get on myself and
> attempt to get through the IP Relay teleconference coaching the call
> assistant to not do the relay announcement or explanation and try to get a
> live transcript through them on my Mantis Q40 and see how that works out.
> I'll use my Captionmate at the same time on a second line and see how it
> compares to what I normally use then I'll send you the completed transcripts
> from both so you can see the differences in each. Usually you can have on
> Zoom meeting ID connected to audio and then a call-in ID connected by phone
> alone. Sometimes I have to do this in order to get one that works right, and
> usually I'd use Hamilton CapTel for that in recent events, but IP Relay is
> publicly available without any app whereas I know Hamilton CapTel (who did
> used to have a public version of their product back in 2018 before they
> stopped supporting it) is still currently in beta so they aren't technically
> public.
>
> Thanks for your help raising this to Scott, Jonathan! I hope Scott may
> have some additional insights. (Did Scott leave this list after the debacle
> last month where he was questioning why NFB was scrapping accessibility for
> members who couldn't attend in person? I'm not sure how to see who is active
> on the list at any given time as I think the list of emails is somehow
> secret or private.)
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:19?AM Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello I am including Scott Davert, with the HKNC Tech Research and
> Innovation Center. Scott is definitely my go to person with questions like
> this
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Jonathan Pringle | Regional Representative for Region Eight
>> he/him/his
>> Helen Keller National Center
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Tucson, AZ 85653
>> (m) 1-516-4171165
>> jpringle at helenkeller.org
>> helenkeller.org
>>
>> <hknclogo_cedfcdbb-98bc-4727-8aac-59c2400ea528.png>
>>
>> HKS is committed to making documents accessible and usable to
> participants, the HKS team and stakeholders.
>> We recognize that accessibility is fluid and users are diverse.
>> Therefore, even though the document may meet accessibility guidelines,
> there may be usability issues .
>> If you have any questions or concerns about a document you receive please
> contact us
>>
>> > On Jul 15, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?
>> > Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille
> access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using
> CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could access
> such meetings. I said I would research this.
>> >
>> > I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have
> extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark, Director
> of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and
> Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
>> >
>> > First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille
> access, and that they are "working on it."
>> >
>> > The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of
> situation would be to:
>> >
>> > 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with
> meeting information;
>> > 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a
> transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
>> >
>> > This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least
> one could have a transcript.
>> >
>> > I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came
> up with the following:
>> >
>> > 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted
> reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille
> reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to 400
> words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned braille
> at a very young age.
>> >
>> > 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is
> subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
>> >
>> > 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted,
> formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille
> device is necessarily much slower.
>> >
>> > Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current
> braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope of
> participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just too
> fast.
>> >
>> > However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the
> meeting by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I
> have yet to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward:
> One has to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the
> host; the user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript
> and how the transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
>> >
>> > Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is
> only available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be
> 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope, that
> is at noon eastern Time - too early.
>> >
>> > One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with
> speech disabilities. Not sure why.
>> >
>> > I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting
> held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is not
> available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work.
> (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
>> >
>> > This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our
> Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the
> University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation
> Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
>> >
>> > I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a
> nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
>> >
>> > OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to
> remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for
> extremely difficult.
>> >
>> > Consider these two possibilities:
>> >
>> > 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of
> hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the
> ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
>> >
>> > 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they
> lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
>> >
>> > Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks
> with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no
> longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for
> improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who
> are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble
> doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the ones
> with the greatest needs.
>> >
>> > Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the
> list of topics to be considered?
>> >
>> > Rod
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NFB-DB mailing list
>> > NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/jonathan.pringle%40hknc.
> org
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> NFB-DB mailing list
>> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 14:29:28 -0400
> From: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID: <79E650EC-8B00-4E14-A320-2EEC62EDD01F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Stuart.
> One of the nice things about IP Relay is that you can save the transcript,
> and if you do not get to it for a few minutes after the call, it will still
> be there. I'd recommend using the website and a computer for this, as
> sometimes mobile connections are a bit less stable.
> The other thing I've done in cases where I needed to use my voice is to call
> through Google Voice and speak. That doesn't work so well these days, as I'm
> sometimes not able to understand speech clearly enough to even know when it
> would be my turn. The hand raising tool of Zoom sometimes helps with this.
> Hopefully whatever Hamelton is working on will work well with braille. When
> I tried their app awhile ago, it was quite challenging on my iPhone with
> braille. Having that fixed would be fantastic! Feel free to let me know how
> it goes, I'm always looking to compare notes with other people in a similar
> boat as I am. I think what will help with this kind of meeting will be if
> someone lays out communication rules and then the tricky part, whether
> people will follow them or not. Identification of speakers can also be a
> challenge, as I'm sure you know from captioning.
>
>
> Take care,
> Scott
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 13:34, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> ?HI Scott, Stuart here.
>
> Thanks! I have not used CART before. I will try to use IP Relay more
> with a point of interaction on a conference call/meeting and see what
> happens. I have not personally tried because it scared me as to how it
> would be received by those in the meeting considering that pacing and
> interruption are a big factor in how well spoken words are received in
> the context of a meeting. When possible, I have always tried to speak
> (for better or worse), even when my voice was not functioning as I'd
> prefer.
>
> Perhaps simply a case of putting one's foot in it and hoping for the best!
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 12:03?PM Scott Davert via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello from vacation. Thus my email is not associated with HKNC...
> IP Relay is what I usually use in the case of Zoom meetings. Stuart seems
> to already have done this in the past with varrying degrees of success. the
> only other option, which is reliable, costs a lot of money. This would be
> using CART through with 1capapp plug in. It works best when sent to a web
> page. however, that requires you to pay a paptioner for the meeting, and
> rates start at like $60 an hour. The challenge with all of this though comes
> in when you wish to also participate. This becomes a very big challenge when
> using IP Relay. It can be done, but the relay operator must interrupt the
> meeting for you to add a comment. When I am able to get CART support, and
> need to participate, I often use 2 devices paired to the same braille
> display. One which displays CART, the other controls Zoom itself so that I
> can do things like raise my hand, mute and unmute my audio and so forth.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 12:35, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hi Rod, Stuart here.
>
> OK, whatever the next Zoom public meeting will be, I'll get on myself and
> attempt to get through the IP Relay teleconference coaching the call
> assistant to not do the relay announcement or explanation and try to get a
> live transcript through them on my Mantis Q40 and see how that works out.
> I'll use my Captionmate at the same time on a second line and see how it
> compares to what I normally use then I'll send you the completed transcripts
> from both so you can see the differences in each. Usually you can have on
> Zoom meeting ID connected to audio and then a call-in ID connected by phone
> alone. Sometimes I have to do this in order to get one that works right, and
> usually I'd use Hamilton CapTel for that in recent events, but IP Relay is
> publicly available without any app whereas I know Hamilton CapTel (who did
> used to have a public version of their product back in 2018 before they
> stopped supporting it) is still currently in beta so they aren't technically
> public.
>
> Thanks for your help raising this to Scott, Jonathan! I hope Scott may
> have some additional insights. (Did Scott leave this list after the debacle
> last month where he was questioning why NFB was scrapping accessibility for
> members who couldn't attend in person? I'm not sure how to see who is active
> on the list at any given time as I think the list of emails is somehow
> secret or private.)
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:19?AM Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello I am including Scott Davert, with the HKNC Tech Research and
> Innovation Center. Scott is definitely my go to person with questions like
> this
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Jonathan Pringle | Regional Representative for Region Eight
>> he/him/his
>> Helen Keller National Center
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Tucson, AZ 85653
>> (m) 1-516-4171165
>> jpringle at helenkeller.org
>> helenkeller.org
>>
>> <hknclogo_cedfcdbb-98bc-4727-8aac-59c2400ea528.png>
>>
>> HKS is committed to making documents accessible and usable to
> participants, the HKS team and stakeholders.
>> We recognize that accessibility is fluid and users are diverse.
>> Therefore, even though the document may meet accessibility guidelines,
> there may be usability issues .
>> If you have any questions or concerns about a document you receive please
> contact us
>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille
> access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using
> CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could access
> such meetings. I said I would research this.
>>>
>>> I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have
> extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark, Director
> of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and
> Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
>>>
>>> First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille
> access, and that they are "working on it."
>>>
>>> The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of situation
> would be to:
>>>
>>> 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with
> meeting information;
>>> 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a
> transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
>>>
>>> This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least
> one could have a transcript.
>>>
>>> I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came
> up with the following:
>>>
>>> 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted
> reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille
> reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to 400
> words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned braille
> at a very young age.
>>>
>>> 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is
> subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
>>>
>>> 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted,
> formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille
> device is necessarily much slower.
>>>
>>> Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current
> braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope of
> participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just too
> fast.
>>>
>>> However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the meeting
> by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I have yet
> to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward: One has
> to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the host; the
> user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript and how the
> transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
>>>
>>> Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is only
> available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be
> 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope, that
> is at noon eastern Time - too early.
>>>
>>> One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with
> speech disabilities. Not sure why.
>>>
>>> I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting
> held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is not
> available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work.
> (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
>>>
>>> This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our
> Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the
> University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation
> Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a
> nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
>>>
>>> OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to
> remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for
> extremely difficult.
>>>
>>> Consider these two possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of
> hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the
> ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
>>>
>>> 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they
> lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
>>>
>>> Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks
> with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no
> longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for
> improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who
> are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble
> doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the ones
> with the greatest needs.
>>>
>>> Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the
> list of topics to be considered?
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NFB-DB mailing list
>>> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/jonathan.pringle%40hknc.
> org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NFB-DB mailing list
>> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/scottdavert%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 12:42:14 -0600
> From: Frank Skogsberg <skogsbergf at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] I am asking for. Suggestions, and making shore
> that all have my contact info?
> Message-ID: <584EF7DB-90E5-4659-A048-9850C4CEFCD3 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230716/bae3b5bb
> /attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 11:50:59 -0700
> From: Robert Stigile <rnstechnology at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] I am asking for. Suggestions, and making shore
> that all have my contact info?
> Message-ID: <2A483411-865E-4EE3-89F0-6023A98CAFE0 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230716/bc457a80
> /attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 14:52:13 -1000
> From: Rod and Ele Macdonald <erjmacdonald at gmail.com>
> To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
> Message-ID: <20230717005213.erjmacdonald at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I am not sure if it is during sign-up or after the event, but I believe you
> can choose one of three options for the transcript, including having it
> emailed to you. They even encourage you to submit a list of known
> participants for the captioner to use in identifying speakers.
>
> I wish NLS used a captioner, but they told me to turn "Transcript" on and
> just save all the flood that arrives.
>
> Enjoy your vacation, Scott.
>
> Rod
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Davert via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> CC: scottdavert at gmail.com
> Date: Sunday, July 16, 2023 8:29 am
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Braille Access and inclusion
>
>
>
> Hi Stuart.
> One of the nice things about IP Relay is that you can save the transcript,
> and if you do not get to it for a few minutes after the call, it will still
> be there. I'd recommend using the website and a computer for this, as
> sometimes mobile connections are a bit less stable.
> The other thing I've done in cases where I needed to use my voice is to call
> through Google Voice and speak. That doesn't work so well these days, as I'm
> sometimes not able to understand speech clearly enough to even know when it
> would be my turn. The hand raising tool of Zoom sometimes helps with this.
> Hopefully whatever Hamelton is working on will work well with braille. When
> I tried their app awhile ago, it was quite challenging on my iPhone with
> braille. Having that fixed would be fantastic! Feel free to let me know how
> it goes, I'm always looking to compare notes with other people in a similar
> boat as I am. I think what will help with this kind of meeting will be if
> someone lays out communication rules and then the tricky part, whether
> people will follow them or not. Identification of speakers can also be a
> challenge, as I'm sure you know from captioning.
>
> Take care,
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 13:34, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> ?HI Scott, Stuart here.
> Thanks! I have not used CART before. I will try to use IP Relay more
> with a point of interaction on a conference call/meeting and see what
> happens. I have not personally tried because it scared me as to how it
> would be received by those in the meeting considering that pacing and
> interruption are a big factor in how well spoken words are received in
> the context of a meeting. When possible, I have always tried to speak
> (for better or worse), even when my voice was not functioning as I'd
> prefer.
> Perhaps simply a case of putting one's foot in it and hoping for the best!
> EOM
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 12:03?PM Scott Davert via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello from vacation. Thus my email is not associated with HKNC...
> IP Relay is what I usually use in the case of Zoom meetings. Stuart seems
> to already have done this in the past with varrying degrees of success. the
> only other option, which is reliable, costs a lot of money. This would be
> using CART through with 1capapp plug in. It works best when sent to a web
> page. however, that requires you to pay a paptioner for the meeting, and
> rates start at like $60 an hour. The challenge with all of this though comes
> in when you wish to also participate. This becomes a very big challenge when
> using IP Relay. It can be done, but the relay operator must interrupt the
> meeting for you to add a comment. When I am able to get CART support, and
> need to participate, I often use 2 devices paired to the same braille
> display. One which displays CART, the other controls Zoom itself so that I
> can do things like raise my hand, mute and unmute my audio and so forth.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 12:35, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hi Rod, Stuart here.
>
> OK, whatever the next Zoom public meeting will be, I'll get on myself and
> attempt to get through the IP Relay teleconference coaching the call
> assistant to not do the relay announcement or explanation and try to get a
> live transcript through them on my Mantis Q40 and see how that works out.
> I'll use my Captionmate at the same time on a second line and see how it
> compares to what I normally use then I'll send you the completed transcripts
> from both so you can see the differences in each. Usually you can have on
> Zoom meeting ID connected to audio and then a call-in ID connected by phone
> alone. Sometimes I have to do this in order to get one that works right, and
> usually I'd use Hamilton CapTel for that in recent events, but IP Relay is
> publicly available without any app whereas I know Hamilton CapTel (who did
> used to have a public version of their product back in 2018 before they
> stopped supporting it) is still currently in beta so they aren't technically
> public.
>
> Thanks for your help raising this to Scott, Jonathan! I hope Scott may
> have some additional insights. (Did Scott leave this list after the debacle
> last month where he was questioning why NFB was scrapping accessibility for
> members who couldn't attend in person? I'm not sure how to see who is active
> on the list at any given time as I think the list of emails is somehow
> secret or private.)
>
> EOM
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:19?AM Jonathan Pringle via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello I am including Scott Davert, with the HKNC Tech Research and
> Innovation Center. Scott is definitely my go to person with questions like
> this
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Jonathan Pringle | Regional Representative for Region Eight
>> he/him/his
>> Helen Keller National Center
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Tucson, AZ 85653
>> (m) 1-516-4171165
>> jpringle at helenkeller.org
>> helenkeller.org
>>
>> <hknclogo_cedfcdbb-98bc-4727-8aac-59c2400ea528.png>
>>
>> HKS is committed to making documents accessible and usable to
> participants, the HKS team and stakeholders.
>> We recognize that accessibility is fluid and users are diverse.
>> Therefore, even though the document may meet accessibility guidelines,
> there may be usability issues .
>> If you have any questions or concerns about a document you receive please
> contact us
>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Some time ago a discussion took place on this list relating to braille
> access to remote meetings such as Zoom. Stuart suggested that by using
> CapTel and relay services a deaf-blind, braille-only individual could access
> such meetings. I said I would research this.
>>>
>>> I wrote to CapTel but did not receive a response. I did, however, have
> extensive discussions with three T-Mobile employees - Keith Clark, Director
> of DeafBlind Services; Cady Machee, Director of Captioning Services; and
> Lisa Tom, Director of Relay Hawaii.
>>>
>>> First, Keith Clark acknowledged that there were "problems" with braille
> access, and that they are "working on it."
>>>
>>> The T-Mobile folks all felt that the way to go in this type of situation
> would be to:
>>>
>>> 1. sign up in advance for captioning services, providing the relay with
> meeting information;
>>> 2. Sign in to the meeting and, once captioning starts, request a
> transcript, which can be downloaded or emailed.
>>>
>>> This would not foster direct participation in the meeting, but at least
> one could have a transcript.
>>>
>>> I'll get to that in a moment, but first: While researching this I came
> up with the following:
>>>
>>> 1. A "good" braille reader reads at 1/3 - 1/2 the speed of a sighted
> reader of the same age - typically 70-100 words per minute for the braille
> reader and 200-300 for the print reader. Braille reading speeds of up to 400
> words per minute have been achieved by some individuals who learned braille
> at a very young age.
>>>
>>> 2. Voice communication is typically 150-250 words per minute, but is
> subject to wide fluctuations - up to 400 words per minute in spurts.
>>>
>>> 3. Recorded braille reading speeds is typically for contracted,
> formatted braille on paper. "Computer braille" on a refreshable braille
> device is necessarily much slower.
>>>
>>> Given these speeds, and further given existing capabilities of current
> braille devices, only the very fastest of fast braille readers has a hope of
> participating real-time in a Zoom meeting The "input stream" is just too
> fast.
>>>
>>> However, it is possible to get a text/word/PDF transcript of the meeting
> by signing up for captioning, and then requesting a transcript. I have yet
> to actually do this but from discussions it seems straightforward: One has
> to sign up for the meeting; captioning has to be turned on by the host; the
> user has to sign in for captioning and also request a transcript and how the
> transcript is delivered (email, download, etc).
>>>
>>> Now comes the fun part. Relay Hawaii Conference Captioning (RCC) is only
> available 8:00-5:00 (Hawaii time) Monday through Friday. That would be
> 2:00-5:00 Eastern time. I checked out a Jaws training webinar ... nope, that
> is at noon eastern Time - too early.
>>>
>>> One of the restrictions: RCC is not available for individuals with
> speech disabilities. Not sure why.
>>>
>>> I then tried to plan to attend the NLS Bard "Patron Engagement" meeting
> held this past week. I then encountered RCC's next restriction - RCC is not
> available for events hosted by Government employees as part of their work.
> (Reasonable accommodation? Contact relay representative.)
>>>
>>> This means RCC is not available for legislative meetings such as our
> Deaf and Blind Task Force, and not available for meetings sponsored by the
> University of Hawaii. And if I were still on the State Rehabilitation
> Council and it went remote, I would not qualify there either.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if it would be allowed for a meeting sponsored by a
> nonprofit-hosted event that is funded by a government agency.
>>>
>>> OK, more than I had intended, but the bottom line is this: Access to
> remote meetings by a braille-only consumer is either not possible for
> extremely difficult.
>>>
>>> Consider these two possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1. I read that 50% of blind folks aged 65 and older have some degree of
> hearing loss, usually a progressive condition. If these folks lose the
> ability to use their hearing in meetings, then what?
>>>
>>> 2. Folks with Usher syndrome have a degenerative vision loss. When they
> lose the ability to follow an interpreter visually, then what?
>>>
>>> Look around you - do you see (figuratively) a lot of older blind folks
> with degenerative hearing, or a lot of Usher syndrome folks who can no
> longer see an interpreter ... do you see them advocating for change, for
> improvements? It seems to me that it is the younger, "I CAN DO!" folks who
> are comfortable speaking out. The ones who have to say "I have trouble
> doing" or "I can't do" are not often heard from - and they are the ones
> with the greatest needs.
>>>
>>> Can we do anything to improve this situation? Can we add this to the
> list of topics to be considered?
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NFB-DB mailing list
>>> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/jonathan.pringle%40hknc.
> org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NFB-DB mailing list
>> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
> _______________________________________________
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> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
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> _______________________________________________
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> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/erjmacdonald%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 20:26:48 -0500
> From: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Adding Hearing Enhancement to NFB App
> Message-ID:
> <CAEe15j_VzyUoRnN4-f_yx8BMBmXxYJKwrx8VyLf8kWBSHndxxw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Peter, Stuart here.
>
> I think this would be a great improvement, setting the NFB app up as a
> model for what accessibility should be for other apps could be a
> game-changer if we have something to reference as a standard-bearer,
> and via VoiceOver this enhancement may help Braille display use as
> well with better accuracy. Thanks for this!
>
> EOM
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 4:02?PM Peter Donahue via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> With so many individuals needing hearing enhancement during NFB
> events one is driven to ask why this feature isn't built directly into the
> NFB App. This would reduce the need for assistive listening devices and
> there would be no need to spend money to secure the device since it is
> already in the NFB App and could be an example for others to follow.
>
> Whenever I have requested assistive listening for an event either
> the venue does not offer it, or in order to procure the assistive listening
> device one must either pay a security deposit as is done during NFB events
> or the venue will want to hold the customer's driver's license opening such
> customers up to possible identity theft. To me neither situation is
> exceptable. Many of these same venues also have apps. The AT&T, and Tobin
> Center for the performing arts in San Antonio have their own apps. For sure
> I know that the Tobin Center will want to hold one's driver's license to
> secure the assistive listening device. Adding an assistive listening
> component to their app would allow paying customers to take advantage of
> this service without the need for the venue to worry about their hearing
> enhancement devices walking out the door and would protect the personal
> information of all attendees including those needing hearing enhancement. A
> resolution dealing with this issue would be great to bring to next year's
> national convention. But first let the NFB add a hearing enhancement
> component to its app as an example for others to follow. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NFB-DB mailing list
> NFB-DB at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NFB-DB:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-db_nfbnet.org/stuartsalvador%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 22:17:56 -0500
> From: rockyhart1221 at gmail.com
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Adding Hearing Enhancement to NFB App
> Message-ID: <0ECEE480-859E-4867-9A31-785EDB414639 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> agreed.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2023, at 8:28 PM, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB
> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> ?Hi Peter, Stuart here.
>
> I think this would be a great improvement, setting the NFB app up as a
> model for what accessibility should be for other apps could be a
> game-changer if we have something to reference as a standard-bearer,
> and via VoiceOver this enhancement may help Braille display use as
> well with better accuracy. Thanks for this!
>
> EOM
>
>
>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 4:02?PM Peter Donahue via NFB-DB
>> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>> With so many individuals needing hearing enhancement during NFB
> events one is driven to ask why this feature isn't built directly into the
> NFB App. This would reduce the need for assistive listening devices and
> there would be no need to spend money to secure the device since it is
> already in the NFB App and could be an example for others to follow.
>>
>> Whenever I have requested assistive listening for an event either
> the venue does not offer it, or in order to procure the assistive listening
> device one must either pay a security deposit as is done during NFB events
> or the venue will want to hold the customer's driver's license opening such
> customers up to possible identity theft. To me neither situation is
> exceptable. Many of these same venues also have apps. The AT&T, and Tobin
> Center for the performing arts in San Antonio have their own apps. For sure
> I know that the Tobin Center will want to hold one's driver's license to
> secure the assistive listening device. Adding an assistive listening
> component to their app would allow paying customers to take advantage of
> this service without the need for the venue to worry about their hearing
> enhancement devices walking out the door and would protect the personal
> information of all attendees including those needing hearing enhancement. A
> resolution dealing with this issue would be great to bring to next year's
> national convention. But first let the NFB add a hearing enhancement
> component to its app as an example for others to follow. All the best.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> om
>
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