[NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?

Thu Jun 8 22:21:22 UTC 2023

Hi Lisa,
Tracie here. I agree with you 100%.

Kind Regards,
Tracie

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 6:02 PM Lisa Ferris via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Frank and others,
>
> Everyone…and I mean EVERYONE deserves and has a right to have a voice. You
> do not have to earn that right by having a certain amount of passion or
> spending 1000s to get to a meeting or even a zoom meeting. If I learned
> anything from the late Judy Heuman, it is this: Everyone needs a seat at
> the table and we have to make the table accessible to all.
>
> Historically, the NFB has not made activities and meetings accessible to
> the DB. I think in the last few years, there has been some improvement
> there with CART and interpreters and I am happy to see that. But when you
> have to pay hundreds for yourself and possibly an SSP or interpreter to get
> to a meeting and then you are only tangentially included in some things
> some times, you can see how people have extra barriers to getting to
> meetings and voting there.
>
> There ARE ways to have fair, private, independent voting that is remote at
> NFB conventions and events. This was proven during the pandemic. There is
> no reason not to do it now except to be exclusionary and take the path of
> least (and lazy) resistance.
>
> I personally have end stage renal disease and am on the kidney transplant
> waitlist and have significant barriers to travel because of that as well as
> being DB. You cannot tell me that my voice doesn’t count because I am
> unable to show up in person at a meeting.  This is an NFB problem, not a
> problem with people’s “passion.” Or how hard they try to get there. For
> some it is impossible. The NFB can either be an inclusive democratic
> organization or it can be a controlling, exclusionary oligarchy. I don’t
> have much interest in being a part of the latter group, if that is what it
> chooses to be.
>
> I was not able to be on the call because this is a super busy week as my
> twins are graduating from high school. But I would like to see fair,
> accessible, private remote voting available and I would like to see
> accessibility for DB folks at activities included in the constitution.
>
>
> Lisa Ferris, M.Ed
> Miles Access Skills Training, LLC
> blindmast.com
>
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2023, at 2:40 PM, Tracie Inman via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Frank,
>  Tracie here. I do not agree with your reasoning for your statement that
> voices should only be heard (and a member should only have a vote) if they
> attend meetings in person. You stated that the Leaders of the NFB travel to
> advocate on behalf of the Blind.  Did you know that their travel expenses
> are covered by the National office? They may also be covered by their State
> affiliates.  A good example of this is the Washington Seminare. All travel
> expenses are covered for those attending and representing their respective
> states.
>   Our National Board members' travel expenses are paid for by the
> Federation.  State affiliates also often pay for their Board members'
> travel costs to conventions. Normal members of the Federation who are not
> state affiliate board members or National Board members don't have that
> option. Many of us struggle just to make it month to month. Those who have
> the ability to afford travel, and the high cost of Hotels, food, etc. are
> very fortunate.  Not all of us have that advantage.
>   Virtual platforms are easily available, and it is becoming more and more
> accessible to hold virtual meetings.  Zoom makes it quite easy for the
> DeafBlind division to have more members attend their meetings (and not just
> in person), so shouldn't those members who attenvd via Zoom have the same
> rights (including voting rights) that those who attend in person? I believe
> they should. I truly believe that the future lies in inclusion, supporting
> one another, and showing support for one another.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Tracie
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 3:30 PM Scott Davert via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Exactly right, Tony and Rod!
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2023, at 15:22, Tony May via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I agree wholeheartedly.  Just because this is the way it’s always been
>> done since the 1940s doesn’t mean we can’t do better.  If the National
>> Federation of the Blind is dead set against improving accessibility in its
>> own organization maybe there should be a meeting scheduled to discuss this
>> with Mr Riccobono.
>>
>> If the only people deemed important enough to listen to are people that
>> can travel, that’s a very strong and telling message.
>>
>> Just my two cents on the matter.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 2023, at 2:07 PM, Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB <
>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Excuse me, but in my opinion your  response to Stuart  was very
>> condescending and discriminatory. Any truly representative organization has
>> the obligation to represent fully the interests of all who fit under the
>> organization's umbrella, and to search vigorously for the means to include
>> all members.  It is not acceptable to exclude members because they are
>> unable to jump when told to jump.
>> >
>> > I myself am unable to attend Zoom meetings  because I am DEAF AND
>> BLINd, and Zoom does not have  a feature that would allow me to
>> participate, except possibly a transcript for after-the-fact reading. Oh,
>> and just by coincidence - I did request a transcript and oh my goodness,
>> none has arrived.
>> >
>> > There are many ways of including those who cannot attend: Provide a
>> comprehensive agenda and allow members to vote on key issues in advance;
>> send out a list of voting items after the meeting and give folks who could
>> not attend an opportunity to vote ... even our COUNTRY allows absentee
>> voting, and many of us use that option.
>> >
>> > We used to exist through yearly meetings, local meetings and the mail.
>> NFB existed that way when I first joined 50-odd years ago. I met Kenneth
>> Jernigan in 1973, and he took the time to chat with me - as one adult to
>> another - using a Tel-a-touch. He took a personal interest in finding ways
>> for inclusion. It was he who recommended me as a Board member of the DC
>> affiliate. Years later he nominated me (without being asked) to represent
>> the U.S. on a World Blind Union committee. And I had as much of a vote in
>> meetings as anyone else, getting my information from volunteers writing
>> braille notes on punched cards.
>> >
>> > Bottom line: Try harder.
>> >
>> > Rod
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Frank Skogsberg via NFB-DB  <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> > To:  nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>> > CC: skogsbergf at gmail.com
>> > Date: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:47 am
>> > Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am sorry that you feel that way, but here is the point when if you
>> can not be in meeting, how can you have any say number two we do not have a
>> Deaf and Blind committee or a group at the moment sent the first of the
>> year because the group is being re-organize, show that why we had meeting
>> last night that's why we are reelecting all new officers re- re-how can you
>> nominate yourself if you do not have a boys in the place I do understand
>> what you're saying and I'm sorry that you feel that way but please remember
>> the officer Hass to be passion after third have to do something can't be
>> done by staying home just like the board members of national they're doing
>> things are going places  I know LANY is getting very tight disability very
>> tight hard but it can be done. You cannot have a voice if you're not
>> passionate that good have a boys. Hope you should reconsider and we'd love
>> to have you in the group I have as I know I would like you can you still be
>> in the group if you can't be physically there because that's why we have
>> this still running so we can stay connected and help each other lol we're
>> all the times I hope this dictation come out right and we all understand.
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >> On Jun 8, 2023, at 1:27 AM, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <
>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ?Hi all, Stuart here with a clarification.
>> >>
>> >> Proxy voting enables a vote in absence. An inclusive perspective may
>> >> posit we can establish a presence to effect change, exert influence
>> >> and advocate as best we're able, even when conditions or capacity make
>> >> travel untenable. Homebound, like me, are now able to contribute more
>> >> than ever, if allowed.
>> >>
>> >> As an example: at one time, only landowners who maintained a residence
>> >> were permitted to vote. If instead only travelers can vote, it seems
>> >> the opposite extreme. Hypothetically, if someone came on the news
>> >> today to declare all who couldn't be physically present at a specific
>> >> US voting location somewhere in the country during a specific period
>> >> of time would now be prevented from voting entirely by any means, I
>> >> can't see how NFB could in good faith argue against it when that's the
>> >> practice NFB is apparently following for voting itself. I would want
>> >> to advocate against that, and I'd not want to be undermined in my
>> >> messaging by being a member of an organization favoring or practicing
>> >> it as the right to vote is foundational and fundamental.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks again!
>> >> EOM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 12:34?AM Peter Donahue via NFB-DB
>> >>> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello everyone,
>> >>>
>> >>>      Proxy voting has been a no-no in the federation for years.
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Donahue
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart
>> Salvador via NFB-DB
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:35 PM
>> >>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>> >>>
>> >>> Doula,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm sorry if I have anything incorrect. I understand that somehow I
>> could in some way have someone physically at the meeting move to elect
>> people who aren't present, but that's not my greatest concern. What I
>> understood was that, regardless of that, there's no provisions to allow
>> voting for anyone that can't physically travel or attend and no chance to
>> change that. Is that correct?
>> >>>
>> >>> If so, my understanding was it doesn't matter what the constitution
>> says now or in the 1940's, who received it in advance, who is elected to
>> serve, or who is on a Board when, no matter what the organizational
>> division does, it will never permit voting by anyone who can't physically
>> be present wherever the meeting is located because it's required to be in
>> the constitution because it's what President Riccobono and/or the Board of
>> NFB says. Is that correct?
>> >>>
>> >>> If yes to both, then as for my feelings on inclusion, what you are
>> hearing from me is accurate I think on my feeling. Basically, I have more
>> than enough challenges with discrimination already in my daily life, and I
>> already have everyone else in the world it feels like attacking me these
>> days. So, while I want to advocate for DeafBlind like myself whenever and
>> however I can, my feeling is I should not be a member if persons with
>> multiple disabilities who are DeafBlind that prevent them from being in
>> person to have a voice, yet are paying dues, enter into a "taxation without
>> representation" relationship where they never actually vote in anyone who
>> represents them because it won't ever be allowed.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, my thinking was to figure out how do I not be a member since NFB
>> isn't including myself or others like me anyway. Otherwise, I basically am
>> giving a +1 to its practices as per its membership number when I would feel
>> like I'm doing something really wrong even if I'm only a drop in the bucket.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks!
>> >>> EOM
>> >>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 10:03?PM Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB <
>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Stuart,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>   What you are saying isn't correct.  The people at the in person
>> >>>>> meeting can move to elect people who aren't present in person.  If
>> >>>>> that motion passes, and you have someone there in person who
>> nominates
>> >>>>> you, then you may be elected without having to be there in person.
>> I
>> >>>>> hear you saying that this goes against inclusion, and I think that's
>> >>>>> something that needs to be worked on.  I hope that clears this up
>> for you.
>> >>>>> Warmly,
>> >>>>> Doula
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart
>> Salvador
>> >>>>> via NFB-DB
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 7:28 PM
>> >>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> Subject: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi all, Stuart here.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It came up on the call tonight that there's no provisions to allow
>> >>>>> voting for anyone that can't physically travel or attend and no
>> chance
>> >>>>> to change that. I've enjoyed communicating on the list-serv, but how
>> >>>>> does one stop being a member?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>> EOM
>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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>
>
> --
> *Tracie Inman*
>
>
>
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-- 
*Tracie Inman*
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