[NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?

doula.jarboe at gmail.com doula.jarboe at gmail.com
Fri Jun 9 04:30:36 UTC 2023 

Hi Rod,

     I thought with at least some caption platforms one is able to control
how the Braille display interacts.  I have enough hearing that I don't use
closed captioning or interpreters.  Last night's meeting was captioned so
there should be a transcript.  Keep in mind that the women who were running
the meeting aren't used to working directly with us, the DeafBlind division.
Hopefully you will get a transcript soon from last night's meeting.  I don't
know everything about what works best for different people.  What I see as
inclusion may not be enough for someone else with different circumstances.
That's why we need everyone's voice and experience to come up with something
that is fully inclusive.  I am on dialysis for kidney failure as well as
needing oxygen for my lungs, so traveling isn't much of an option for me
right now.  I'm not saying that my situation and inability to attend
convention in person makes me less of a member.  But the conventions from
2020 and 2021 showed that we can be much more inclusive by using other means
than just being in person.  So, what do we want for solutions?  Both Carla
and Shelia are on this list and can take these back to the board.  I'm on
the national DEI committee which is another place to take ideas about
inclusion.

-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rod and Ele Macdonald
via NFB-DB
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 9:27 PM
To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
Cc: Rod and Ele Macdonald <erjmacdonald at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?

Doula,

Excuse me, but I do not have equipment that can provide a virtual solution
for me; I have not had computer training in over 20 years, and do not have
access to it; and Zoom does not have features that support braille access.
Add to that I will soon be 82, cannot physically handle a 4,000-mile trip,
and do not have SSP support or the stamina to use an interpreter if I did.
In other words I can not participate in a Zoom meeting and I cannot attend a
convention. 

Does that exclude me from participation? Not even a transcript to follow
along after the fact?

Rod

----- Original Message -----
From: Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB  <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
To:  nfb-db at nfbnet.org
CC: doula.jarboe at gmail.com
Date: Thursday, June 8, 2023 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?

>
>
> Hi Scott,
     Thank you for great questions.  Seems to me like the focus is on being
in person.  That it's too much of an expense to run in person and have
things fully virtual.  I know if people have the right training and
equipment and work arounds, that that is a fixable issue.  When we discussed
National Convention in the DEI committee meeting, there were a number of
ideas to help make being in person more accommodating.  But those of us who
keep trying to push for more virtual involvement only seem to receive push
back.  Divisions are allowed to run their meetings virtually if they are
able to do it on their own and can avoid the horrendous hotel fees.  How
many people with multiple disabilities serve on the national board who might
understand this?  To my knowledge Marci Carpenter is one of the few maybe.
This is our organization, so we need to get this figured out.
Warmly,
Doula
-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Scott Davert via
NFB-DB
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:56 AM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
Stuart brings up an extremely important point. So I must ask: what happened
to all of that talk during the pandemic about being more inclusive and all
that stuff about how they discovered so many great things about having a
virtual component? Where are said virtual components in 2023? Do they exist
and I'm just not aware?
With curiosity,
Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 8, 2023, at 09:42, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
?Hi Tony, Stuart here.
Thanks so much for answering my question! I will stop paying dues and going
to meetings in that case. If possible, please expedite removing me from
counting in membership numbers.
As for the suggestion, I have no problem if others want to spend time on
that. If I'm told there's a chance for change that's one thing, but I'm told
there's no chance in this case and there are other organizations that allow
me to fully have a voice so I'll focus there. Apparently this division is
being reorganized yet still can't be bothered to seek opportunity for
inclusion at a fulcrum point of potential change. Personally, I have more
than enough people I need to write into all the time and convince to do the
right thing in government, at businesses, in my neighborhood, for my medical
needs, and even within my family. I'd rather spend my time advocating for
DeafBlind rights with everyone else in the world than pleading with other
DeafBlind to get them to care or value other DeafBlind with other
disabilities that make them different. Doing the latter to me uses up
limited energy and saps motivation to advocate for us all, because it really
takes the wind out of my sails the most when other DeafBlind find a way to
be at ease with a status quo discriminating against the next person for
their differences. 
I appreciate the acknowledgement of frustration, thanks again very much!
EOM
On Jun 8, 2023, at 5:29 AM, Tony May <kg6sxy at gmail.com> wrote:
?Hello Stuart,
No one seems to have answered your original question.  To leave a division,
don't renew your membership and stop showing up to meetings.  I know how
frustrating it can feel when you can't vote in person and can't travel.  You
can still sway the opinions of people that can vote ahead of conventions.
It's not the same as a personal vote but it is better than nothing.
Take care,
Tony

> On Jun 8, 2023, at 2:27 AM, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> ?Hi all, Stuart here with a clarification.
> 
> Proxy voting enables a vote in absence. An inclusive perspective may 
> posit we can establish a presence to effect change, exert influence 
> and advocate as best we're able, even when conditions or capacity make 
> travel untenable. Homebound, like me, are now able to contribute more 
> than ever, if allowed.
> 
> As an example: at one time, only landowners who maintained a residence 
> were permitted to vote. If instead only travelers can vote, it seems 
> the opposite extreme. Hypothetically, if someone came on the news 
> today to declare all who couldn't be physically present at a specific 
> US voting location somewhere in the country during a specific period 
> of time would now be prevented from voting entirely by any means, I 
> can't see how NFB could in good faith argue against it when that's the 
> practice NFB is apparently following for voting itself. I would want 
> to advocate against that, and I'd not want to be undermined in my 
> messaging by being a member of an organization favoring or practicing 
> it as the right to vote is foundational and fundamental.
> 
> Thanks again!
> EOM
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 12:34?AM Peter Donahue via NFB-DB 
>> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>>      Proxy voting has been a no-no in the federation for years.
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart Salvador 
>> via NFB-DB
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:35 PM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>> 
>> Doula,
>> 
>> I'm sorry if I have anything incorrect. I understand that somehow I could
in some way have someone physically at the meeting move to elect people who
aren't present, but that's not my greatest concern. What I understood was
that, regardless of that, there's no provisions to allow voting for anyone
that can't physically travel or attend and no chance to change that. Is that
correct?
>> 
>> If so, my understanding was it doesn't matter what the constitution says
now or in the 1940's, who received it in advance, who is elected to serve,
or who is on a Board when, no matter what the organizational division does,
it will never permit voting by anyone who can't physically be present
wherever the meeting is located because it's required to be in the
constitution because it's what President Riccobono and/or the Board of NFB
says. Is that correct?
>> 
>> If yes to both, then as for my feelings on inclusion, what you are
hearing from me is accurate I think on my feeling. Basically, I have more
than enough challenges with discrimination already in my daily life, and I
already have everyone else in the world it feels like attacking me these
days. So, while I want to advocate for DeafBlind like myself whenever and
however I can, my feeling is I should not be a member if persons with
multiple disabilities who are DeafBlind that prevent them from being in
person to have a voice, yet are paying dues, enter into a "taxation without
representation" relationship where they never actually vote in anyone who
represents them because it won't ever be allowed.
>> 
>> So, my thinking was to figure out how do I not be a member since NFB
isn't including myself or others like me anyway. Otherwise, I basically am
giving a +1 to its practices as per its membership number when I would feel
like I'm doing something really wrong even if I'm only a drop in the bucket.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> EOM
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 10:03?PM Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB
<nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stuart,
>>> 
>>>   What you are saying isn't correct.  The people at the in person 
>>> meeting can move to elect people who aren't present in person.  If 
>>> that motion passes, and you have someone there in person who 
>>> nominates you, then you may be elected without having to be there in 
>>> person.  I hear you saying that this goes against inclusion, and I 
>>> think that's something that needs to be worked on.  I hope that clears
this up for you.
>>> Warmly,
>>> Doula
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart 
>>> Salvador via NFB-DB
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 7:28 PM
>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>>> 
>>> Hi all, Stuart here.
>>> 
>>> It came up on the call tonight that there's no provisions to allow 
>>> voting for anyone that can't physically travel or attend and no 
>>> chance to change that. I've enjoyed communicating on the list-serv, 
>>> but how does one stop being a member?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> EOM
>>> 
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