[NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?

Sun Jun 11 00:49:05 UTC 2023

Hi Rod, Stuart here.

When I get on Zoom, I haven't found a way to make the captioning
scrollable/selectable. The field automatically changes lines on my
Braille display and pacing is controlled by some inscrutable Zoom
algorithm. The captioning is in no way interactive. Instead, I select
Audio and dial-in on phone to connect under my same name (so it
doesn't show as a separate connection). I use Captionmate for that so
I can keep up. Captionmate is free and Hamilton CapTel also recently
redid their service to allow their website interface to be used again
if you don't have a device that uses apps like Captionmate. Hamilton
CapTel web interface is similar to IP Relay and yet without IP Relay
syntax or delays. You don't actually have to at any time speak for
Captionmate or Hamilton CapTel and can do everything through the
interface. This should work with a Braille display either with a PC or
that has its own browser function. I used to do it on my BrailleSense
U2, but now I have a Mantis Q40 so I need to do things differently.
Anyway, Captionmate and Hamilton Web CapTel let you select what you
are reading. It's the only way I have any chance of keeping up to
understand what's happening on Zoom. So, when I do that, I'm not
technically using Zoom Captions at all. I hope that helps if you'd
like to explore that possibility to access Zoom simply as though it
were a teleconference instead.

http://app.engage.hamiltontel.com/e/er?s=1575294410&lid=388&elqTrackId=5d753d098ac3417488a195a67e796883&elq=24391fc5764f435a8edbfb1f889abae2&elqaid=812&elqat=1

I hope this may help you, and I'd be happy to host a Zoom for you just
to have it open so you could test the audio teleconferencing with
something like Hamilton Web CapTel. This service has been out of
commission a long time and I'm so glad they brought it back as it's OK
for teleconferencing unlike IP Relay which can have some barriers to
access because of how it works.

EOM

On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 2:35 PM Rod and Ele Macdonald via NFB-DB
<nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Doula. Thank you for taking the time and being upbeat about solutions.
>
> Last night (It must have been early this morning for you) I submitted a list of possible ways in which inclusion could be pursued for those who, for whatever reason, find it hard to show up in person. I am not "pushing" any of them, but hope they are at least worth considering.
>
> If there is a way to make Zoom captions compatible with a braille display, at the user's speed, I have not come across it yet. 30 years ago a device was developed to enable a braille user, using a TeleBraille, to follow TV captions. A very few consumers found it fascinating, but the device never caught on.
>
> It is getting harder and harder t o develop these "far out" items, because of cost, development time, small market and the ever-present search for profit. But  even so, sometimes "our issues" remove us from the mainstream to such an extent that a viable solution is a real, real challenge.
>
> My primary means of receptive communication, since 1975, has been tactile fingerspelling. That means the speaker/interpreter has to spell out works into the palm of my hand. Later I started using a braille display attached to a computer keyboard. Using either of these methods, the fastest receptive communication  I could handle was about 50 words per minute.
>
> Still, that was a big leap forward. It was enough to go back to grad school and get  a Master's degree - and start a Doctorate program. It was enough to enable me to serve as President of AADB for 12 years, and as VP of the World Federation of the Deaf-Blind, now DeafBlind.
>
> But I am pushing 82 years old, have no useful sight or hearing, have severe arthritis to the point of needing a walker to go out, and my receptive skills have dropped significantly. Very impressive developments in communication technology may well be just around the corner, but I am just not up to it, physically, geographically (Mid-Pacific) or otherwise.
>
> So shy all this drum-beating on inclusion issues? Well, because there ARE folks out there who are being left out, and who are not up to playing the tuba for themselves. I was really proud of Lisa for doing just that; I hope I can encourage others to do so.
>
> I know, too, that it can be quite frustrating for the DB of today to have to slow down to let others catch up. We have an incredibly diverse community - a community embracing two languages that are followed/expressed using partial sight, partial hearing or touch, where the "normal" way to adjust to vision loss is to employ hearing, and the "normal" way to adjust to hearing loss is to employ vision; and when both are affected we have to scramble for solutions. OK, fine - when the going gets tough the tough get going, and all that jazz. I suggest that it is up to those of us who can to find the solutions for those who can't.
>
> Thank you for your willingness to roll up your sleeves and tackle some of these issues.
>
> Rod
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB  <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> To:  nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> CC: doula.jarboe at gmail.com
> Date: Thursday, June 8, 2023 6:30 pm
> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Rod,
> >
> >      I thought with at least some caption platforms one is able to control
> > how the Braille display interacts.  I have enough hearing that I don't use
> > closed captioning or interpreters.  Last night's meeting was captioned so
> > there should be a transcript.  Keep in mind that the women who were running
> > the meeting aren't used to working directly with us, the DeafBlind division.
> > Hopefully you will get a transcript soon from last night's meeting.  I don't
> > know everything about what works best for different people.  What I see as
> > inclusion may not be enough for someone else with different circumstances.
> > That's why we need everyone's voice and experience to come up with something
> > that is fully inclusive.  I am on dialysis for kidney failure as well as
> > needing oxygen for my lungs, so traveling isn't much of an option for me
> > right now.  I'm not saying that my situation and inability to attend
> > convention in person makes me less of a member.  But the conventions from
> > 2020 and 2021 showed that we can be much more inclusive by using other means
> > than just being in person.  So, what do we want for solutions?  Both Carla
> > and Shelia are on this list and can take these back to the board.  I'm on
> > the national DEI committee which is another place to take ideas about
> > inclusion.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rod and Ele Macdonald
> > via NFB-DB
> > Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 9:27 PM
> > To: nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> > Cc: Rod and Ele Macdonald <erjmacdonald at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
> >
> > Doula,
> >
> > Excuse me, but I do not have equipment that can provide a virtual solution
> > for me; I have not had computer training in over 20 years, and do not have
> > access to it; and Zoom does not have features that support braille access.
> > Add to that I will soon be 82, cannot physically handle a 4,000-mile trip,
> > and do not have SSP support or the stamina to use an interpreter if I did.
> > In other words I can not participate in a Zoom meeting and I cannot attend a
> > convention.
> >
> > Does that exclude me from participation? Not even a transcript to follow
> > along after the fact?
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB  <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> > To:  nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> > CC: doula.jarboe at gmail.com
> > Date: Thursday, June 8, 2023 3:04 pm
> > Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Scott,
> >      Thank you for great questions.  Seems to me like the focus is on being
> > in person.  That it's too much of an expense to run in person and have
> > things fully virtual.  I know if people have the right training and
> > equipment and work arounds, that that is a fixable issue.  When we discussed
> > National Convention in the DEI committee meeting, there were a number of
> > ideas to help make being in person more accommodating.  But those of us who
> > keep trying to push for more virtual involvement only seem to receive push
> > back.  Divisions are allowed to run their meetings virtually if they are
> > able to do it on their own and can avoid the horrendous hotel fees.  How
> > many people with multiple disabilities serve on the national board who might
> > understand this?  To my knowledge Marci Carpenter is one of the few maybe.
> > This is our organization, so we need to get this figured out.
> > Warmly,
> > Doula
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Scott Davert via
> > NFB-DB
> > Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:56 AM
> > To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
> > Stuart brings up an extremely important point. So I must ask: what happened
> > to all of that talk during the pandemic about being more inclusive and all
> > that stuff about how they discovered so many great things about having a
> > virtual component? Where are said virtual components in 2023? Do they exist
> > and I'm just not aware?
> > With curiosity,
> > Scott
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On Jun 8, 2023, at 09:42, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> > ?Hi Tony, Stuart here.
> > Thanks so much for answering my question! I will stop paying dues and going
> > to meetings in that case. If possible, please expedite removing me from
> > counting in membership numbers.
> > As for the suggestion, I have no problem if others want to spend time on
> > that. If I'm told there's a chance for change that's one thing, but I'm told
> > there's no chance in this case and there are other organizations that allow
> > me to fully have a voice so I'll focus there. Apparently this division is
> > being reorganized yet still can't be bothered to seek opportunity for
> > inclusion at a fulcrum point of potential change. Personally, I have more
> > than enough people I need to write into all the time and convince to do the
> > right thing in government, at businesses, in my neighborhood, for my medical
> > needs, and even within my family. I'd rather spend my time advocating for
> > DeafBlind rights with everyone else in the world than pleading with other
> > DeafBlind to get them to care or value other DeafBlind with other
> > disabilities that make them different. Doing the latter to me uses up
> > limited energy and saps motivation to advocate for us all, because it really
> > takes the wind out of my sails the most when other DeafBlind find a way to
> > be at ease with a status quo discriminating against the next person for
> > their differences.
> > I appreciate the acknowledgement of frustration, thanks again very much!
> > EOM
> > On Jun 8, 2023, at 5:29 AM, Tony May <kg6sxy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ?Hello Stuart,
> > No one seems to have answered your original question.  To leave a division,
> > don't renew your membership and stop showing up to meetings.  I know how
> > frustrating it can feel when you can't vote in person and can't travel.  You
> > can still sway the opinions of people that can vote ahead of conventions.
> > It's not the same as a personal vote but it is better than nothing.
> > Take care,
> > Tony
> >
> > On Jun 8, 2023, at 2:27 AM, Stuart Salvador via NFB-DB <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > ?Hi all, Stuart here with a clarification.
> >
> > Proxy voting enables a vote in absence. An inclusive perspective may
> > posit we can establish a presence to effect change, exert influence
> > and advocate as best we're able, even when conditions or capacity make
> > travel untenable. Homebound, like me, are now able to contribute more
> > than ever, if allowed.
> >
> > As an example: at one time, only landowners who maintained a residence
> > were permitted to vote. If instead only travelers can vote, it seems
> > the opposite extreme. Hypothetically, if someone came on the news
> > today to declare all who couldn't be physically present at a specific
> > US voting location somewhere in the country during a specific period
> > of time would now be prevented from voting entirely by any means, I
> > can't see how NFB could in good faith argue against it when that's the
> > practice NFB is apparently following for voting itself. I would want
> > to advocate against that, and I'd not want to be undermined in my
> > messaging by being a member of an organization favoring or practicing
> > it as the right to vote is foundational and fundamental.
> >
> > Thanks again!
> > EOM
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 12:34?AM Peter Donahue via NFB-DB
> >> <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >>      Proxy voting has been a no-no in the federation for years.
> >>
> >> Peter Donahue
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart Salvador
> >> via NFB-DB
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:35 PM
> >> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
> >>
> >> Doula,
> >>
> >> I'm sorry if I have anything incorrect. I understand that somehow I could
> > in some way have someone physically at the meeting move to elect people who
> > aren't present, but that's not my greatest concern. What I understood was
> > that, regardless of that, there's no provisions to allow voting for anyone
> > that can't physically travel or attend and no chance to change that. Is that
> > correct?
> >>
> >> If so, my understanding was it doesn't matter what the constitution says
> > now or in the 1940's, who received it in advance, who is elected to serve,
> > or who is on a Board when, no matter what the organizational division does,
> > it will never permit voting by anyone who can't physically be present
> > wherever the meeting is located because it's required to be in the
> > constitution because it's what President Riccobono and/or the Board of NFB
> > says. Is that correct?
> >>
> >> If yes to both, then as for my feelings on inclusion, what you are
> > hearing from me is accurate I think on my feeling. Basically, I have more
> > than enough challenges with discrimination already in my daily life, and I
> > already have everyone else in the world it feels like attacking me these
> > days. So, while I want to advocate for DeafBlind like myself whenever and
> > however I can, my feeling is I should not be a member if persons with
> > multiple disabilities who are DeafBlind that prevent them from being in
> > person to have a voice, yet are paying dues, enter into a "taxation without
> > representation" relationship where they never actually vote in anyone who
> > represents them because it won't ever be allowed.
> >>
> >> So, my thinking was to figure out how do I not be a member since NFB
> > isn't including myself or others like me anyway. Otherwise, I basically am
> > giving a +1 to its practices as per its membership number when I would feel
> > like I'm doing something really wrong even if I'm only a drop in the bucket.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> EOM
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 10:03?PM Doula Jarboe via NFB-DB
> > <nfb-db at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Stuart,
> >>>
> >>>   What you are saying isn't correct.  The people at the in person
> >>> meeting can move to elect people who aren't present in person.  If
> >>> that motion passes, and you have someone there in person who
> >>> nominates you, then you may be elected without having to be there in
> >>> person.  I hear you saying that this goes against inclusion, and I
> >>> think that's something that needs to be worked on.  I hope that clears
> > this up for you.
> >>> Warmly,
> >>> Doula
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NFB-DB <nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stuart
> >>> Salvador via NFB-DB
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 7:28 PM
> >>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Stuart Salvador <stuartsalvador at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: [NFB-DB] Membership Cancellation?
> >>>
> >>> Hi all, Stuart here.
> >>>
> >>> It came up on the call tonight that there's no provisions to allow
> >>> voting for anyone that can't physically travel or attend and no
> >>> chance to change that. I've enjoyed communicating on the list-serv,
> >>> but how does one stop being a member?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> EOM
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >
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