<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">hi the outfit is the Amarcan asoation of the deaf-blind ps this list is run by nfb-db and it is not a vary good to recrute for another group. but if this just a info request that is ok if things get two persnal please take it off list. we are mostly here person who are blind ferst and dea-blind secend. ps I am duing this on a mac and have a rittenexpration disorter so please for give the spealling. e I am the motter or lerker on the on the list to keep orter see you in the moder city.<br><div><div>On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:42 PM, <a href="mailto:habnkid@aol.com">habnkid@aol.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div> <br> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">So what does the AADB do? What had AADB offered you? Yes, those who struggle with denial deserve some empathy and support, but that can be done without making them irresponsible. <br> <br> Haben<br> </font></div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Mussie <<a href="mailto:gmussie9@hotmail.com">gmussie9@hotmail.com</a>><br> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <<a href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>><br> Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 8:36 am<br> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_687ed193-9ce9-44aa-b4c1-3c03aab47046" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> Very thoughtful comments, Haben. I, too, wondered why AADBremains the way it is now while the NFB maintains its powerful influence over policies that affect not only the blind but also individuals who are deaf-blind. AADB doesn't have the resources and manpower to mount a rigorous campaign to attain and sustain greater services for the deaf-blind. In fact, a recent article from a university of North Carolina indicated that there are roughly 40,000 deaf-blind people, less than the membership of the NFB! Even for me, the NFB remains more solidly involved in enhancing the lives of blind people through legislative and other avenues (not to forget litigation) than the National Association of the Deaf (NAD), the voice of America's deaf (note that the vast majority, roughly 30 million, of Americans are hard of eharing while the tiny fraction is deaf, yet the NAD is actually a powerful lobbying and advocate group of the hearing impaired). I would love for AADB to take a more decisive and influential role and work shoulder to shoulder with the NFB because it best represents the needs of deaf-blind individuals. But right now, I am not too happy with the approaches and strategies of the AADB and am anxious to see what the next generation of DB leaders will do. Nonetheless, AADB remains an important voice of the db. <br> Speaking of denail... I don't completely agree that DB people should be held responsible for their refusal to adapt. Psychologically speaking, it is their childhood experiences that may largely explain for the struggle they face in adapting. Not just their past experiences (such as abuse as a result of their loss of vision and hearing, for I know many db people who endure trama), but also their natural personalities (shyness, etc) that make it naturally difficult for them to accept reality. The best we can do is not blame them for ignoring info we distribute to them, but consider providing services that emphasize the underlying psychological issues many face in adapting to new circumstances. I know of one person who is db and refuses to learn to use a cane, yet he had bumped agaisnt street poles and people before being convinced by a psychologist that he needed a cane. <br> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <<a __removedlink__1837182669__href="mailto:habnkid@aol.com">habnkid@aol.com</a>> <br> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <<a __removedlink__1837182669__href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>> <br> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:20 AM <br> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication <br> <br> > <br> > Yes, John, every dB person diagnosed with Denial should be injected with a > full dose of reality. I totally agree with you on that part. The > mentality, the intellectual blockout, of people in unfavorable situations > is darkly fascinating. It's like one of those plays where the audience can > see what's going to happen but the main character is blissfully ignorant > of reality. That kind of comedy does have a name, perhaps audience irony, > I don't remember. But the case of closed minded DB people sounds just like > it. Well adapted people can see what's going on while the stumbling DB > person refuses to face up to reality. When they've been offered > information about adaptive technology, information on blindness techniques > and deafness techniques, and yet they still refuse to acknowledge their > life, then supporters can do no more than sit back and wait for reality to > brutally slam into place on its own terms... It would be so nice if we had > more people in the public who knew exactly what we are capable of and what > we are not capable of. A police officer will scold a person who rides a > bike without a helmet, but find me a police officer who scolds a blind > person for walking outside without a cane. Does the AADB have a rigorous > philosophy comparable to that of the NFB? There are many in the NFB who, > if tripped by a fellow blind person because that guy wasn't using a > mobility tool, would immediately confront the man about his irresponsible > travel methods. <br> > <br> > Haben <br> > <br> > John Lee Clark wrote: <br> >> Haben: <br> >> <br> >> It's denial. And fear. Some refuse to learn tactile listening because >> they <br> >> think it would mean losing all of their friends because the tactile is a <br> >> sign of blindness. But ironically, it is precisely their denial and >> refusal <br> >> to adapt that drives away their friends. Instead of realizing this, they <br> >> often hold their loss of friends as a proof that they WILL lose >> everything <br> >> else if they became more blind. It is very hard to get through to them >> that <br> >> if they adapt, they will not lose anything but in fact gain more than >> they <br> >> have and their quality of life would be improved. <br> >> This is a common problem among all human beings. It is fascinating how <br> >> irrational people can become in slow-burning situations, such as being <br> >> tangled in an abusive relationship. For example, the victim of abuse >> often <br> >> thinks it is her fault, that she's a terrible person, and she was the one >> to <br> >> cause the abuser to beat her up. Domestic violence counselors have a >> hard <br> >> time getting the reality through. Abuse victims usually get back to >> their <br> >> ab users seven times before finally leaving the relationship for good. <br> >> <br> >> While that's not an ideal analogy, it does show a human side that is <br> >> baffling and hard to understand. Usually, if the DB person is not >> receptive <br> >> to learning how to adapt, the best thing to do is let the train wreck <br> >> happen. That is, they need to find out for themselves, they need to hit <br> >> bottom. <br> >> But the problem is that many times nobody would let them hit bottom. <br> >> Instead, professionals try to "help" DB people in whatever choices they <br> >> make, and they would repeat things patiently and endlessly, they would go >> to <br> >> great lengths so they can use their eyes, such as getting a dark >> background, <br> >> getting stronger lighing, signing smaller, etc. etc. Tthis is like, you <br> >> know, enabling. This only extends the length of the denial and <br> >> irrationality. <br> >> <br> >> Another way to put it is that those DB people often don't experience <br> >> consequences of their actions and choices. There are professionals and <br> >> others who give false consequences. For example a DB person who refuses >> to <br> >> use a cane goes to a DB event and bumps into people, causing two people >> to <br> >> fall down badly, and he trips over a toddler, badly brusing the toddler. <br> >> What people would say is "That's OK. We understand you can't see so it's <br> >> not your fault." Well, in my opinion, it is NOT okay. I mean, he HURT <br> >> people physically! Sure, he can't see, but he is still responsible! >> There <br> >> is the cane, there's the guide dog, there are mobility techniques, etc. >> If <br> >> something happened in spite of the person's making good choices and being <br> >> responsible, that's when you can say it's not his fault. Sometimes those <br> >> things happen, where nobody did anything wrong. But this DB guy is not >> in <br> >> that situation. The situation is he made bad choices by not using a >> cane. <br> >> But he continues because he is enabled. <br> >> What I would really like is for a huge dose of reality to be injected >> here. <br> >> He should be told that it's not OK, that he should be using a cane. He <br> >> should be told that if he can't be responsible for respecting the safety >> of <br> >> others, he's not welcome there. He should be constantly offered the <br> >> opportunity to learn how to adapt. He might even be sued for public <br> >> misconduct. <br> >> <br> >> He should be exposed to real and natural consequences of his actions. <br> >> That's what I mean by letting the train wreck happen. Reality needs to >> be <br> >> allowed to hit his head. That's not the best way to learn, no. Much >> better <br> >> if he was already open and receptive. But if that's not the case, then >> he <br> >> needs to learn it the hard way. <br> >> <br> >> You know what I'm saying? What do you think? Any ideas for other ways >> to <br> >> help some DB people see the reality? <br> >> <br> >> John <br> >> <br> >> <br> >> _______________________________________________ <br> >> nfb-db mailing list <br> >> <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a> <br> >> <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org" target="_blank">http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a> <br> >> <br> > <br> > _______________________________________________ <br> > nfb-db mailing list <br> > <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a> <br> > <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org" target="_blank">http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a> <br> > <br> _______________________________________________ <br> nfb-db mailing list <br> <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a> <br> <a __removedlink__1837182669__href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org" target="_blank">http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a> <br> </div> <!-- end of AOLMsgPart_0_687ed193-9ce9-44aa-b4c1-3c03aab47046 --> <div id="MAILCIADB028-5bca4a3dba44392" class="aol_ad_footer"><br><font style="color:black;font:normal 10pt arial,san-serif;"> <hr style="margin-top:10px">Make your summer sizzle with <a href="http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000003">fast and easy recipes</a> for the grill.</font> </div> _______________________________________________<br>nfb-db mailing list<br><a href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a><br>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>