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marsha when I was raising Mark and all of the stuff work church and
family stuff I almost never got around to reading the Monitor so
there is no judgment on my part. I did see Janice's article but
haven't seen others at least since November after becoming a little
more consistient in my reading. <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/24/2013 6:19 PM, Marsha Drenth
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F32D4C95-8DF4-449C-8195-342A777561D7@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Cathy,
Unfortunately I was unaware of the article Janice wrote in the Monitor. It wasn't because I don't want to read the Monitor, but only because between being a full time student taking 15 to 17 credits a semester, being a mother, the moderator of the NAGDU list, my husband, church, there is not enough time in the day. Of course I also don't need to justify myself to anyone. If the article had just been mentioned, I of course then would have read it.
Marsha drenth
Sent with my IPhone
On May 24, 2013, at 6:57 PM, Catherine Miller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:guillcat@gmail.com"><guillcat@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Marsha, haven't you been reading the Monitor? Yes, they would, and have within the last couple of months, published more than one article about deaf-blind issues. One of the articles was written by our very own Janice Toothman. Janice, I am so very proud of you for doing this. I have been meaning to do it myself, but haven't worked hard enough to find the time. You did what only a true leader would do, and I'm so very glad that you are among us. Guys, the old attitudes really truly are changing, but we must, must, must keep the momentum going. We've got a long way to go, and folks are starting to listen. Now we must educate them so they can begin to understand. What we're doing here is the best way to release all those years of frustration over the way things are. USE that energy to influence the change.
I want to emphasize that I do not belittle your frustration, or your suffering, or your anger, or anything else you might possibly feel as a Federationist who is different in the way that seems to matter most to other Federationists. It's felt to me like the kiss of death. Gather your strength from the rest of us on the DB list. Join other DB lists. It's no secret that there's strength in numbers.
Cathy Miller
Sent from my iPad
On May 22, 2013, at 9:00 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org">nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send nfb-db mailing list submissions to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nfb-db digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Orlando 2013 National Convention (Sheila Leigland)
2. Re: HKNC (David Andrews)
3. Re: nfb-db Digest, Vol 52, Issue 2 (Catherine Miller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 15:07:10 -0600
From: Sheila Leigland <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sleigland@bresnan.net"><sleigland@bresnan.net></a>
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org"><nfb-db@nfbnet.org></a>
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Orlando 2013 National Convention
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:519D337E.5010100@bresnan.net"><519D337E.5010100@bresnan.net></a>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:37:33 -0500
From: David Andrews <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dandrews@visi.com"><dandrews@visi.com></a>
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org"><nfb-db@nfbnet.org></a>
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] HKNC
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:auto-000110960641@mailfront3.g2host.com"><auto-000110960641@mailfront3.g2host.com></a>
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So this discussion doesn't get out of hand I would like to suggest an
alternative word. It was said that state presidents "denied" that
they had deaf-blind members. Maybe a way to think of it is that they
aren't aware of deaf-blind members.
David Andrews, List Owner
At 08:13 AM 5/22/2013, you wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Janice,
I want to make sure that I understand correctly, the NFb DB division
asked the state presidents for the names of those within their
states who are deafblind? And the state presidents denied that they
even had deafblind persons in the state? What! Seriously! Please
tell me your kidding. I guess your not. In a way I do believe that
this happened. UGH! This makes me all shades of mad and frustrated.
I know of quite of few DB in the state of PA. Perhaps those
presidents are delusional, or perhaps they really don't have any DB,
because the NFB has such a bad reputation for acceptance of the
different, or the DB.
its the same as the NAGDU board/division asking the state presidents
of who the guide dog users are. I remember a time when guide dogs in
the NFB were not accepted, so now as the DB division and people we
are starting off at the same point.
I wonder if, one of us wrote an article, and wanted it in the
Braille Monitor about DB issues, if it would be included. What do
you all think?
Marsha drenth
Sent with my IPhone
On May 22, 2013, at 6:14 AM, Janice Toothman
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:janice.toothman@verizon.net"><janice.toothman@verizon.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Marsha and Pawpower,
I empathize.
As a secretary of the deaf-blind division, the board talked about
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">lack of acceptance by the NFB to issues of the deaf-blind. We had
tried to get asked each state affiliate president for the names of
deaf-blind individuals in their state all had denied they had any
deaf-blind members!
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We discussed the growing as more people live longer they will
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">acquire age related deaf-blindness.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
We will be seeking to propose resolutions this year at the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">National Convention to hope raise awareness to the deaf-blind issues.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Janice
On 5/22/2013 1:09 AM, The Pawpower Pack wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Marsha,
I have never been to HK as a student, but I did want to say that
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I have had the same experience with the NFB, on local, state, and
national levels. Not willing to provide interpreters, Resentful
attitudes, nasty namecalling and treating me like I have terrible
blindness skills because I'm deaf and therefore can't interact with
the world like hearing people.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I have to say, that the NAGDU has been the single exception to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">my experience and is wonderful.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I don't go to national conventions any more, because I'm tired
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of the names and the superior attitudes, and the downright nasty
behavior. It's very sad. Because as our population ages, more and
more people will experience hearing loss. So the same people who
are being rude and horrible today may have hearing loss in 20
years. I hope, for their sake, that fundamental change will have
happened in the NFB by the time they need it.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
Bristol, Mill'E-Max, Laveau!
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pawpower4me@gmail.com">pawpower4me@gmail.com</a>
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Marsha Drenth
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marsha.drenth@gmail.com"><marsha.drenth@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello Listers,
For the past year I have lost a significant amount of hearing.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Last tested I was at a 100DB loss. I have been totally blind for
the last 10 years. as a child I attended a school for the blind. So
my blindness skills are good. But now with the loss of my hearing,
life has certainly gotten interesting and challenging. I will be
the first to say that I have been struggling. Currently I am a full
time student at a major university pursuing a degree in Social
Work. I have one year left.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
So my questions are this, Has anyone on this list been to HKNC?
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I know the NFB advocates for a blindness skills training center,
but that is NOT what i need. my OVR came to and has recommended
that I go to HKNC for training. If you have been, I have a whole
slue of questions, that i'll ask at another point.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
What is the NFB's stance on HKNC? This by no means will impact
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">my desicion to go or not to go. I am curious.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I guess a better reason of why I ask the above questions, is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">that I have been an NFB member for my entire life, my parents, my
grandparents all have been in the NFB. my grandparents were around
when the two organizations split. I have grown up with the positive
philosophy. I get it, I truely do. But here I have been thrust into
the world of deafblindness. Not many people know this yet, as I am
working to figure things out, I am only begining to be comfortable
with expressing my needs to others. I know that is whole another
subject on acceptance, but that is not my point for this post.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I will relay an experience I had at my last national
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">convention, last year in Dallas. I was in the general session, I
got up to go to the bathroom, found my way out fine. Found the
bathroom fine. But when I entered the big huge room, I was lost. I
asked persons around me where I was. People were rude. i said I
can't hear. people made fun of me. I walked around looking for my
state for atleast 15 minutes. I was frustrated, I didn't know which
way was to the front or the back of the room or the way to get out.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I tell you all this, because I realized that my ability to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">hear, my independence was changing. There were other times that I
got lost, but people were so rude, so mean. When I expressed that I
was hard of hearing and totally blind, people did not understand,
care, or get it. In other words I was shunned, looked down upon, made fun of.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Why can't people in the NFB accept persons who are different?
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Why are us who are deafblind looked down upon? And if confirmed,
its just because our blindness skills are lacking. That is not the case.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
So do the NFB people look down upon those who go to HKNC? Is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">there a difference in training philosophy? Again I said this won't
change my desision to go for training or not. more curious than anything.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Look folks I don't want to argue about this, but I do want answers.
Thank you for reading, and sorry this is so long....
Marsha drenth
Sent with my IPhone
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 20:59:44 -0500
From: Catherine Miller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:guillcat@gmail.com"><guillcat@gmail.com></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">"nfb-db@nfbnet.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org"><nfb-db@nfbnet.org></a>
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] nfb-db Digest, Vol 52, Issue 2
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:8D58FDB1-2BA4-414D-BFB6-36E894C473D6@gmail.com"><8D58FDB1-2BA4-414D-BFB6-36E894C473D6@gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Friends:
It saddens me to think that some of us just don't get it that we are guilty of the injustices that we accuse others of. To answer your question, Marsha, the NFB is NOT against HKDBA. Although the NFB might have a history of supporting vanilla-flavored blindness, the philosophy of the leardership began to undergo a change with Dr. Maurer. So many of the rank and file haven't caught on yet.
I have to say, truthfully, that among Deaf people, I have experienced the same type of attitudes. Not everyone is guilty, but I've witnessed others being treated like step children and have myself been shunned and left out because I'm different. It's human nature, a relic of the past, and something we must fight against. The battle will not be won overnight, but we must continue the fight.
Don't forget to fight on the state and local level, wherever you can find support.Pam Allen, my state affiliate president, asked me to present at our state convention on the topic of deaf-blindness. I keep a running dialog with her about deaf-blind issues, and she is lways happy to hear what's going on. The attitudes of our NFB are changing rapidly. It's like we're gonna reach critical mass at some point, so it's so important that we bring our knowledge together from as many points as possible, HKNC being an important one.
Although I did not attend HKNC, the best thing I ever did as a deaf-blind person was to attend Louisiana Career Development Center for the Deaf and Deaf-Blind )LCDC). All my teachers were culturally and literally Deaf, so it was a total immersion program. I learned to communicate in a way that no other place could have taught me. Marsha, if you have an opportunity to attend HKNC, not only do you owe it to yourself, but remember that the restr of us need the knowledge you will gain there; we need you, enlightened, to fight with us t. We are fighting the same fight that began in 1940 for the founders of the NFB, only those of us who are deaf-blind are fighting it 73 years later.
Anyone who would look down on you for going to HKNC is not an enlightened Federationist. We are here to support each other, and the important part of that is realizing that none of us have the same needs as the next one.
Sent from my iPad
On May 22, 2013, at 8:37 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org">nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send nfb-db mailing list submissions to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org">nfb-db-request@nfbnet.org</a>
You can reach the person managing the list at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db-owner@nfbnet.org">nfb-db-owner@nfbnet.org</a>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nfb-db digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: HKNC (Marsha Drenth)
2. Re: HKNC (Marsha Drenth)
3. Re: Orlando 2013 National Convention (Marsha Drenth)
4. Re: HKNC (Marsha Drenth)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:04:16 -0400
From: Marsha Drenth <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marsha.drenth@gmail.com"><marsha.drenth@gmail.com></a>
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org"><nfb-db@nfbnet.org></a>
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] HKNC
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:44DEAB8A-BB77-4D51-9B4F-D5669A4C146C@gmail.com"><44DEAB8A-BB77-4D51-9B4F-D5669A4C146C@gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Rox,
I am not happy to hear that I am the only one. I am happy to hear that I am not the one in feeling the way i do about the nastiness.
I have only seen this nastiness on the national level. Although my state is just now coming to fully understand my issues, they are supportive.
I am assuming that you have asked for a interpertor? And if when you asked what was said? Why was your request denied.
I mean for goodness sakes, the NFB does supply listening devices for those who are hard of hearing. This is awesome. But what about those of us who can't use the listening devices. We should be denied access to the same information? The NFB advocates for access all of the time, what about our access? what about our rights? are we that different that we don't deserve that right? Heck no...
I am very happy to hear about NAGDU. Of course its not just me, so by no means do I take responsibility for this. But NAGDU has worked hard to be a good division. And I work hard on the NAGDU list.
Ok, I will shut up now, I could go on forever LOL
Marsha drenth
Sent with my IPhone
On May 22, 2013, at 1:09 AM, The Pawpower Pack <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pawpower4me@gmail.com"><pawpower4me@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Marsha,
I have never been to HK as a student, but I did want to say that I have had the same experience with the NFB, on local, state, and national levels. Not willing to provide interpreters, Resentful attitudes, nasty namecalling and treating me like I have terrible blindness skills because I'm deaf and therefore can't interact with the world like hearing people.
I have to say, that the NAGDU has been the single exception to my experience and is wonderful.
I don't go to national conventions any more, because I'm tired of the names and the superior attitudes, and the downright nasty behavior. It's very sad. Because as our population ages, more and more people will experience hearing loss. So the same people who are being rude and horrible today may have hearing loss in 20 years. I hope, for their sake, that fundamental change will have happened in the NFB by the time they need it.
Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
Bristol, Mill'E-Max, Laveau!
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pawpower4me@gmail.com">pawpower4me@gmail.com</a>
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Marsha Drenth <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:marsha.drenth@gmail.com"><marsha.drenth@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello Listers,
For the past year I have lost a significant amount of hearing. Last tested I was at a 100DB loss. I have been totally blind for the last 10 years. as a child I attended a school for the blind. So my blindness skills are good. But now with the loss of my hearing, life has certainly gotten interesting and challenging. I will be the first to say that I have been struggling. Currently I am a full time student at a major university pursuing a degree in Social Work. I have one year left.
So my questions are this, Has anyone on this list been to HKNC? I know the NFB advocates for a blindness skills training center, but that is NOT what i need. my OVR came to and has recommended that I go to HKNC for training. If you have been, I have a whole slue of questions, that i'll ask at another point.
What is the NFB's stance on HKNC? This by no means will impact my desicion to go or not to go. I am curious.
I guess a better reason of why I ask the above questions, is that I have been an NFB member for my entire life, my parents, my grandparents all have been in the NFB. my grandparents were around when the two organizations split. I have grown up with the positive philosophy. I get it, I truely do. But here I have been thrust into the world of deafblindness. Not many people know this yet, as I am working to figure things out, I am only begining to be comfortable with expressing my needs to others. I know that is whole another subject on acceptance, but that is not my point for this post.
I will relay an experience I had at my last national convention, last year in Dallas. I was in the general session, I got up to go to the bathroom, found my way out fine. Found the bathroom fine. But when I entered the big huge room, I was lost. I asked persons around me where I was. People were rude. i said I can't hear. people made fun of me. I walked around looking for my state for atleast 15 minutes. I was frustrated, I didn't know which way was to the front or the back of the room or the way to get out.
I tell you all this, because I reali
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nfb-db@nfbnet.org">nfb-db@nfbnet.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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