[Nfb-krafters-korner] OT: Speaking of Computers

slery slerythema at insightbb.com
Wed Jul 21 04:02:54 UTC 2010 

I hope this goes to you privately (as not to clutter the list) but I think I
keep getting the list email when I try to grab yours.

I grew up on DOS and even did a tiny bit of programming in BASIC. Yes, I do
wish some things were still that way. WordPerfect 5.1 was the best
wordprocessor. Now you have to turn off a bunch of things and fight with
MSWord to keep it from taking over.

However, I use my computer to fit into what the general population is using
(haven't taken the time to run dual boot with Linux yet). If you do not need
to exchange various file formats with others or run sophisticated web
browsers, then a DOS machine is fine. It is simply the point of asking what
your ultimate goals are and reasons for using such an OS. Again, my concern
is that you will have to use hardware that has been pulled from old
computers that have been sitting around in a closet. Also, you should be
extremely diligent with backups because using an old hard drive means that
it is much closer to its fail date than something that is new. You have no
guarantee as to how hard it was used by its previous owner.

Cindy S.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Eleni Vamvakari
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:17 PM
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] OT: Speaking of Computers
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
>   I really hope that I don't get in trouble for posting such 
> a lengthy off-topic post here.  If it's inappropriate, please 
> let me know, feel free to delete it and I'll continue the 
> conversation offlist.  But I thought others would be 
> wondering the same thing and might benefit from the answer if 
> they're looking for a cheap and easy-to-use (with some 
> patience and learning) system or if they too enjoyed using 
> DOS and mistakenly believed that it was dead.  When I gave my 
> specs to the company, they said that it's definitely doable 
> but that it might be difficult to find some of the parts, 
> unless I was willing to go with older ones.  This isn't a 
> problem for me, as I'd be beyond surprised if such parts were 
> brand new, so I told them to proceed.  Fortunately, they also 
> said that they may have some on hand, and know other vendors 
> who could help, so it's not entirely hopeless.
> 
>   I wrote this in response to a personal e-mail sent to me 
> last night and then posted it to the tech groups.  Many 
> people throughout my life have asked me why I love DOS so 
> much.  Not being a truly technical person, I could only give 
> a few reasons from my limited experience.  I love old tech in 
> general, and avoid touch screens on things that work 
> perfectly fine with dials, switches and real buttons.  But 
> that's not the only reason why I love DOS. It's a fast, 
> efficient, stable, keyboard-friendly system which doesn't 
> require alot of power, hard drive space, ram, speed or money 
> passed the initial cost of a synthesizer, a screen reader if 
> you get VocalEyes (sold but no longer supported), since all 
> others are now free.  Even the machine itself is cheap, since 
> you don't need a top of the line computer to run this os.  Of 
> course, if you choose to get scanning software and a braille 
> embosser, that will add money to the overall cost, but even 
> those can be bought at a good price if you're lucky enough to 
> find them.  Most of the mainstream software is also freeware, 
> shareware or very cheap. The newer versions of the operating 
> system, like FreeDOS and Enhanced DR-DOS, are open source, 
> meaning that you can tweek them to meet your needs if you 
> have the technical knowhow. They're also updating the various 
> versions to be compatible with modern hardware and formats so 
> you're not limited to using only older technology.  Enhanced 
> DR-DOS was just updated last year and has it's own built-in 
> multitasker, available since the old DR-DOS days, which, if 
> it works with a screen reader, means that you're not stuck 
> using only one program at a time. As for me personally, I 
> like programs that use the tui (text user
> interface) and the command line or that have nice hotkeys 
> and/or menus built in and that don't have tons of graphics, 
> most of which are unnecessary or which complicate things 
> without reason.
> 
>   For the longest time, that was as far as I could go with my 
> answer. But after 14 years, I've found the page that explains 
> more than I ever could about why DOS is still a viable option 
> today and why it shouldn't be tossed aside.  At the below 
> link, you'll find 37 fallacies about DOS and why they're all 
> wrong.  Some are common misconceptions and some even 
> surprised me.  It's a bit long but definitely worth reading, 
> especially if you know alot about operating systems and/or 
> are looking for an alternative one that will keep you on 
> budget and won't give you a headache.
> 
> http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html
> 
>   Many have said that software and resources are no longer 
> available for DOS.  If they mean ones for adaptive 
> technology, then sadly, they're right.  But there's alot out 
> there for the mainstream.
> 
> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Head.html
> 
> (especially the second one) are both gold minds of material 
> and have just about everything you could ever want, from 
> links to other websites, including ones with different 
> varieties of DOS, to programs, to tutorials and books on 
> using the os, various programs and even programming itself, 
> to tips and even a little humour.  The only things they 
> doen't have, as I've said, are reviews and tips on using 
> software from the blind point of view and information on 
> finding and using adaptive technology.
> 
> Talk soon,
> Eleni
> 
> On 7/20/10, slery <slerythema at insightbb.com> wrote:
> >
> > Really curious, why are you using DOS?
> >
> > I just built two computers in February and some of this 
> ancient access 
> > that you are asking for is going to be next to impossible 
> to find. I 
> > just double checked one of the main sources that people use for 
> > hardware that build their own and:
> >
> > no 5.25 floppy drive of any kind
> > the smallest hard drive is 18GB
> > the slowest cpu is 1.5Ghz (and trying to match up cpu 
> socket type with 
> > a motherboard that has a serial port, parallel port, and 
> ps2 port is 
> > really
> > difficult)
> > 128MB RAM is the smallest (again, this must match the motherboard)
> >
> > What did they tell you when you requested all of these 
> specifications?
> >
> > Cindy S.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Eleni 
> >> Vamvakari
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:54 PM
> >> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> >> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] OT: Speaking of Computers
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello to everyone,
> >>
> >>   I never thought I'd be posting a computer-related topic 
> on here but 
> >> here goes.  I'll try to put everything in one place so 
> that we don't 
> >> have many off-topic posts and I promise not to make this a 
> habit.  Of 
> >> course, feel free to e-mail me offlist if you think doing 
> so on here 
> >> will cause a problem and I'll simply let everyone know when 
> >> something's been resolved.
> >>
> >>   I'm currently having a machine made by JG Custom PCs. 
> However, they 
> >> haven't started yet and are still looking for parts.  
> These are the 
> >> specifications that I sent to them.  If you have a machine 
> that meets 
> >> a good number of these specs and are willing to sell it, could you 
> >> please let me know? The 5.25 floppy, cd rom, scsi slot, 
> ethernet jack 
> >> and usb port are not necessary if it's a laptop.  I'd also like
> >> something under 7 lbs. if possible and with less than a 14.1
> >> screen (smaller is better).  The same exceptions apply for a
> >> desktop (minus the weight and screen of course) with the
> >> addition of the pcmcia slot not being necessary, since most
> >> desktops don't have those.  Still, having both floppies would
> >> be nice.  The only catch is that the computer needs to have
> >> drivers for MS-DOS because I can then use them with the
> >> modern version of the operating system that I'll be installing.
> >>
> >>   I'm also looking for hardware and software for DOS-based 
> machines, 
> >> such as an ocr program (and scanner), a braille 
> translation program, 
> >> a wordprocessor (Word Perfect and Ed.exe, their text editor, is 
> >> acting strangely with VocalEyes), a synthesizer 
> (especially a KeyNote 
> >> Gold SA, Dectalk Express or PC or an Apollo capable of 
> reading Greek)
> >> and whatever else comes to mind.  I have a Braille Blazer, a
> >> KeyNote Gold Voicecard (worried about it's fragility), two
> >> Echos and a nonworking Accent SA, so the synth isn't of
> >> immediate concern though it would be great to find a new one
> >> considering my choices.  Finally, if any of you program in
> >> QuickBASIC or do batch programming in DOS, please let me
> >> know.  I'm on the Blind Computing and Computers mailing lists
> >> but couldn't find anything else with much activity, so advice
> >> on other lists would also be great, even if you can't answer
> >> anything else.
> >>
> >>   Stars mean that something is essential and dbd means 
> determined by 
> >> designer.  The optional section is idealistic and not necessary.
> >>
> >> ===
> >> Desktop Specifications
> >>
> >> Form Factor
> >> small/able to fit on desk (mini tower if possible and 
> regular desktop 
> >> if not)
> >>
> >>  Weight
> >> whatever is reasonable for size and hardware included
> >>
> >> hard disk capacity
> >> No more than 5gb and no less than 100mb if there's no partition. 
> >> Willing to accept a partition of a single  10gb drive split into 
> >> two5gb drives or two separate internal drives but if you 
> know how to 
> >> makeDOS see more than 5gb I'll accept a larger single 
> drive. Nothing 
> >> over 20gb is needed.
> >>
> >> Ram
> >> *No more than 64mb and no les than 32mb.
> >>
> >> CPU Speed
> >> No more than 500mhz and no less than 100mhz.
> >>
> >> Input
> >> Enhanced 101 keyboard (already owned but a new one is fine 
> so long as 
> >> it doesn't connect via usb port.)
> >>
> >> Media
> >> *1 3.5 in. (1.44mb,, LS240 or HiFD 200mb) floppy
> >> *1 5.25 in. high dencity floppy,
> >> 1 cd rom
> >>
> >> Connectivity
> >> *1 standard RS-232 9-pin male serial port
> >> *1 bidirectional female parallel port (2 if possible)
> >> *1 pcmcia slot
> >> *1 modem jack with internal 56k modem
> >> 1 ethernet jack
> >> *1 ps/2 port
> >> 1 line-in jack or microphone jack
> >> *1 headphone/speaker jack
> >> video ports dbd
> >> 1 scsi slot
> >> 1 usb 2.0 port
> >>
> >> Sound
> >> *built-in DOS-compatible sound card
> >>
> >> Screen-related
> >> resolution: dbd
> >> graphics etc.: dbd
> >>
> >> OS
> >> Latest stable release of Enhanced DR-DOS with all 
> necessary drivers 
> >> and patches preferred. If not, then a machine with FreeDOS 
> installed. 
> >> Links and installation instructions will be provided.
> >>
> >> Ideal/optional
> >> parts from Japan,, America, Europe etc. and not china, 
> Korea, Taiwan 
> >> etc. (really appreciated) ability to burn with cd rom if drive is 
> >> included wireless card (WaveLAN and ORiNOCO might work with DOS) 
> >> metal casing 1  750mb zip drive other essential hardware dbd
> >>
> >> Thanks for everything,
> >> Eleni
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> 
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> >
> >
> >
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