[Nfb-krafters-korner] to everyone

[Eileen Scrivani]

Henrietta & Cindy:

I'm by no means trying to be difficult, but just want to make sure I 
understand because a lot was said during the meeting.  Of course, I want my 
rights protected and as we all know copy right is complicated and none of us 
are lawyers.  I don't want to continue dragging this out on list and making 
everyone upset.  Not my intention to upset people who don't care much for 
the topic, again, just want to make sure my materials are protected.  Until 
there is a knowledgable, legal advisor(s) that will work to protect both 
equally the KKd & the materials of teachers I'm not saying any more here, 
but just hope there will be inclusion of teachers at any meetings to speak 
with legal advisors so that all are represented and main points get covered. 
Otherwise it will be very one sided.  Again I think we all want to be fair 
with each other.  I asked yesterday for clarification on wording I foung not 
very clear and was just told to go back and re-read messages.

Eileen
, but it wil

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Henrietta Brewer" <gary.brewer at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:26 PM
To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] to everyone

> Hi Cindy,
> You are right. We don't want a place to gift the info. I am sure it was a 
> slip on Eileen's part. She, like all of us, had a lot to take in that 
> night. When I asked if everyone was in agreement I didn't mention anything 
> about an offer to gift the materials. I am sure the board will stay far 
> away from that subject. Their goal is to keep things moving smoothly. They 
> don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.
>
> Let's move on and wait until the info is obtained for correct wording.  I 
> think we can trust the board to table the idea of selling the recordings. 
> Let's face it, at some time their might be some teachers that will want to 
> make their teaching methods available for sale. When they come along 
> things can be set up for them. Right now, we are all in agreement that the 
> recordings are for the teacher and students in that class and will not be 
> saved.
>
> Please, let's move on.
> Henrietta
> On Jan 15, 2011, at 5:33 PM, slerythema wrote:
>
>> I do appreciate Eileen submitting an email with her summation of the
>> meeting. I think we may need some of the other teachers to speak up 
>> because
>> I do not recall that anyone was ever going to gift permission for the
>> Krafters Division to use the recordings. My understanding is that the
>> Division will NOT use any recordings past or future.
>>
>> The statement for the website would state this policy. That is why I am
>> unclear about why a check box needs to be available to give permission. 
>> To
>> my knowledge, there was no permission being granted. The statement would
>> acknowledge that the teachers have copyright of their materials and the
>> sign-ups would also have the students making an agreement that they 
>> cannot
>> do anything with the materials provided to them by the teacher other than
>> for their personal use.
>>
>> Did I miss some important aspect to the meeting?
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> AUDREY WELLNER
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:20 AM
>>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] to everyone
>>>
>>>
>>> Readers,
>>>    At the end of last nights meeting Eileen was encouraged to
>>> write a summary of her thoughts concerning matters brought up
>>> at that meeting. She attempted to do so this morning with her
>>> own interruptions of the points brought out at that meeting.
>>> I pasted her email back in again as I am confused with the
>>> restatement of her use of the word "gifting."
>>>    I see her to mean that when a teacher writes and submits a
>>> proposal for a class that there be a box shown on the
>>> proposal sheet for the teacher to determine whether she/he
>>> wants to retain sole dominion over the rights of her
>>> particular teachings of a particular class or allow the
>>> material to be freely used by NFB or members thereof for
>>> their own purposes.
>>>
>>> In this statement below it speaks solely of the purpose and
>>> rights of the TAPE after the class is over...which would have
>>> already been determined by the check box on a proposal before
>>> the class even commences.  Apples and oranges...two different things.
>>> We are not lawyers here.
>>>     Audrey Wellner, Secretary
>>>     Krafters Korner division
>>>  As you state in your email, the wording of "gifting"
>>> anything was used in Eileen's email. The official policy
>>> statement that Joyce has sent to the list a few different
>>> times has never used this wording.
>>>
>>> At the end of that meeting, to the best of my understanding,
>>> the teachers agreed that these recordings are only for
>>> personal use and no one is using them for any other means.
>>> The statement for the website (requiring legal advice for
>>> exact language) is to reaffirm this policy and provide a
>>> "written" agreement between the division and the teacher when
>>> they fill out a proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Eileen Scrivani" <etscrivani at verizon.net>Add sender to Contacts
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To:
>>> "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that positive comments were addressed and we have
>>> decided on how to move along and better the divisions
>>> activities by respecting copy right laws & ownership of
>>> copyrighted materials.
>>>
>>> Yes, Joyce said that the instructor's own their own materials
>>> and that the KKD will  not sell recorded materials.
>>>
>>> With the wonderful input that Donna Hill brought to the
>>> meeting with her vast knowledge on copy right law and what
>>> constitutes copy righted materials I believe we now all have
>>> a better and clearer understanding of it, how it works and
>>> that it needs to be respected by everyone; the KKD, the
>>> instructors  For & the students.  For those who do not know,
>>> Donna Hill is currently teaching a knitting class for the
>>> KKD, she is the Head of Media Relations for the NFB's
>>> Performing Artists Division, she has 2 cd's on cd Baby, & she
>>> is the author of 2 books.  I think her presence helped to
>>> bring calm and focus to last night's meeting.
>>>
>>> I believe that it was agreed that the KKD will work on making
>>> adaptations to the KKD's web site so that agreements on copy
>>> can be clearly stated and put into a written type of format
>>> for students, instructors & the KKD.  This would be
>>> accomplished at time a student signs up for a class, just as
>>> when an NLS book is downloaded, you agree that the class
>>> recordings and any handouts are for your own personal use and
>>> not to be sold or given out (a matter of either clicking a
>>> button or checking a box indicating your agreement or disagreement).
>>>
>>> Second, that when instructors submit a proposal there will be
>>> a box or some kind of selection to choose if they donate/give
>>> rights to the recordings/materials to the NFB KKD or they do
>>> not give away but choose to keep their rights for themselves.
>>> I hope to that in the email acknowledging and accepting a
>>> class proposal that gets sent to instructors, it will be set
>>> in place that a statement may be put into that message
>>> acknowledging the agreement between instructor & NFB KKD.
>>> This will cover all basis and protect everyone.  And it can
>>> serve as one last safe guard to disagreement if something has
>>> been incorrectly clicked it can be cleared up prior to a
>>> class. In essence, we agreed that the current very casual way
>>> of doing these things cannot continue and that for the
>>> protection of all concerned we do it more formally.
>>>
>>> Also, if patterns from the internet be used for a class it is
>>> proper to post the link so people can go and get that pattern
>>> themselves, credit must always be given to the copyright
>>> holder along with the link (if available) and, an it is
>>> important to email the copyright holder asking their
>>> permission to use the pattern, letting them know you would
>>> like to use the pattern for a knit along for this division.
>>> I have found in most cases people are very reasonable and
>>> will give the thumbs up, but if they give a negative
>>> response, their copy right must be respected.  As explained
>>> to me accessibility & copy right are two separate things,
>>> making something accessible does not mean you are complying
>>> with copy right law.  The NLS once told me that just because
>>> someone is blind that does not give them the legal right to
>>> take copyrighted materials and distribute it or sell it.
>>> Making copyrighted materials accessible does not over ride
>>> copyright laws as I  understand it.
>>>
>>> The KKD will only save for a short period of time the class
>>> recordings that will give students & instructors sufficient
>>> time to go and download recordings they may want.  After that
>>> passage of time, the recordings will not be kept & stored by
>>> NFB KKd, it is up to instructors to be responsible and
>>> download to their own computers the recordings they want.
>>>
>>> Any class handouts written by instructors only need the
>>> slightest copyright mark to be considered the intellectual
>>> property of the author of those written materials.  These
>>> written handouts are also only for the use of those students
>>> in the class and intended for personal use only.
>>>
>>> Finally the last topic that I was able to hear being covered
>>> was the issue of teaching techniques.  A technique like
>>> making a Knit stitch or plastic canvas "X" stitch is a
>>> technique.  While a "technique" is not copyrightable, the
>>> words and language used to describe those techniques verbal
>>> or written is copy rightable.  Yes anyone can teach a
>>> technique, but you need to develop your own language and
>>> descriptions to convey that material to others to make it
>>> your own original idea.  Pulling out a knitting book and
>>> reading the words from that book to teach the knit stitch is
>>> not your own original work, you would then be using someone
>>> elses copy righted materials.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 1/14/11, slerythema <slerythema at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: slerythema <slerythema at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] to everyone
>>> To: "'List for blind crafters and artists'"
>>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 10:41 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> I am catching up on emails so Joyce may have already responded.
>>>
>>> As you state in your email, the wording of "gifting" anything
>>> was used in Eileen's email. The official policy statement
>>> that Joyce has sent to the list a few different times has
>>> never used this wording.
>>>
>>> At the end of that meeting, to the best of my understanding,
>>> the teachers agreed that these recordings are only for
>>> personal use and no one is using them for any other means.
>>> The statement for the website (requiring legal advice for
>>> exact language) is to reaffirm this policy and provide a
>>> "written" agreement between the division and the teacher when
>>> they fill out a proposal.
>>>
>>> Cindy S.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of NCBootman
>>>>
>>>> As I understood the e-mail sent by Eileen, it was mentioned
>>>> having a check
>>>> box so teachers could retain or gift ownership to NFB. That
>>>> leaves the
>>>> position ambiguous and subject to continued controversy down
>>>> the road. If
>>>> the policy is that NFB owns nothing. Say that and leave it
>>>> alone! If you
>>>> have the policy but some have given permission and some have
>>>> not, or maybe a
>>>> technical glitch caused something, you open up potential
>>>> problems including
>>>> possible lawsuits. Say ownership stays with the teacher and
>>>> nothing else and
>>>> you are less likely to have problems in the future. Assume
>>>> that applies to
>>>> everyone without exception.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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