[Nfb-krafters-korner] Nfb-krafters-korner Digest, Vol 52, Issue 14
Kendra Schaber
Baltimore777 at comcast.net
Fri Nov 18 06:38:10 UTC 2011
Hi all, I have known people who started out with site but went blind later
in life. I know that it is a hard experience for them. I would answer
questions, tell them stories about what blind people can do and of course,
your experiences about being blind. You can't leave out the believe in
yourself bit either. I have always been blind so fortunently for me, I have
not had to make big adjustments as a result of my vition. I have had to
adjust from trying to read large print to braille later than I should have
but the school district that I was in who did that didn't know what they
were doing. They should have tought me braille from the get go but they
didn't. The Oregon School for the Blind was who tought me about living as a
blind person in the end. I would incourige the two ladies to experiment with
different methods on for example how to get a hold of an audio book in order
for them to find out what works best for them. Let them know of resources
like the NFB website for example. Also, help them figure out the best ways
to transfer a skill that they have used as a sited person to how they would
do the same as a blind person. Most blind people who I have known who were
once sited had a skill that they transfered on their own from their time as
a sited person to a blind person. Back off when they ask for it but be ready
to answer questions as well. When they are ready to learn more information,
I'll bet that they will ask questions.
I also heard about the snow man class. I think that a MR. and MRS.
snowman idea sounds cute! Has anyone come up with a rain man for those of us
who live in rainy areas? Hahh Hahh!!! I think that we will get a normal
winter this year. We in Oregon are getting gorgess rainstorms. The mountains
are getting snow as well. Our skiers are loving that. Not out of the
ordinary for people like myself who lives in Oregon.
Kendra Schaber
----- Original Message -----
From: <nfb-krafters-korner-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: Nfb-krafters-korner Digest, Vol 52, Issue 14
> Send Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list submissions to
> nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nfb-krafters-korner-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nfb-krafters-korner-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Nfb-krafters-korner digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Well if you feel bad about... (Denise Shaible)
> 2. Re: let it snow (Denise Shaible)
> 3. Re: let it snow (Lovette Yewchan)
> 4. Re: Hi from a new member. (Denise Shaible)
> 5. Monitoring someone with low vision (Barb Roland)
> 6. Re: Hi from a new member. (artist)
> 7. Re: Monitoring someone with low vision (Annette Carr)
> 8. Re: Monitoring someone with low vision (River Woman)
> 9. Re: Hi from a new member. (River Woman)
> 10. Re: Hi from a new member. (artist)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:57:00 -0800
> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Well if you feel bad about...
> Message-ID: <CD014729CD8B4BC8B022EA7BE929E98D at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Joyce,
>
> I think that's great! Mr. and Mrs. Snowman! I'd love to do that if I can
> get the han of the tree project. With Theresa doing the kits, I believe
> it
> will be easier for me to get all of the materials. I look forward to
> doing
> it. I also look forward to the Christmas projects coming up soon. Thanks
> so much to both Theresa and you for all of the information and help with
> safety pin beading. It seems more difficult than I thought but, it seems
> worth the work. I mean, to have such beautiful hand-made ornaments and
> home
> decorations is great. It's all exciting and good.
>
> Regards,
>
> Denise
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicole Hutchins
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:58 PM
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Well if you feel bad about...
>
> Joyce,
> That's what I meant. I need to learn to bead so I'll be able to make them
> come January.
>
> Nicole
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 9, 2011, at 11:58 AM, "Zimmer, Cindy" <cindy.zimmer at nebraska.gov>
> wrote:
>
>> However, my snowman class is coming up....Knifty Knitter Snowman!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Blindhands at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:38 AM
>> To: nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Well if you feel bad about...
>>
>> Sorry the class will not be until after The first of the year.
>>
>> Joyce Kane
>> _www.KraftersKorner.org_ (http://www.krafterskorner.org/)
>> Blindhands at AOL.com
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/9/2011 9:46:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> nkhutch86 at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Yes! I do my house in snowmans. I need to learn how to do this before
>> January. LOL
>> Nicole
>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Blindhands at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> If you feel bad that you missed out on taking the Lighted beaded
>> Christmas
>>> Tree Safety pin class, Theresa has offered to do a Lighted beaded
>> snowman
>>> class in January!
>>>
>>> This will be a winter gentleman. She will be making up the kits and
>> she
>>> said she will also have a Mr. and Mrs. Snowman kit available. How cool
>> [or
>>> should I say cold] is this!
>>>
>>> No excuse make them in January and you can have him or her or both as a
>>> decoration for the winter and they will be already for next Christmas,
>> too!
>>>
>>> I want to decorate them with a color scarf for now to go with his top
>> hat
>>> and carrot nose and then make a red and green scarf for them to wear
>> next
>>> holiday season!
>>>
>>> Joyce Kane
>>> _www.KraftersKorner.org_ (http://www.krafterskorner.org/)
>>> Blindhands at AOL.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/nkhutch86%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/blindhands%
>> 40aol.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/cindy.zimmer%40nebraska.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/nkhutch86%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfb-krafters-korner:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:15:01 -0800
> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] let it snow
> Message-ID: <5B67A8601FE84A7E858863C04EC0B34D at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I don't think we're sending any kind of bad message. I think people just
> like snowmen. I know I do. They remind me of my childhood. does anyone
> agree with this? Hey, what's this about a knit snowman? I know about the
> safety pin beading one and the KK one but I didn't hear about a knit one.
> Please let me know. Wow! I can't believe the amount of crafts we're
> doing
> for the holidays and after the holidays. I love it. Keep it coming.
> Maybe
> next year, I can do the candy tree. I would need time to make one so I
> can
> get the exact amounts of candy, etc. If anyone has done a candy tree, let
> me know and maybe that's a craft we want to do even in December. We'll
> see.
> Its really very easy to make but you need a certain amount of candy and
> pins
> to attach it. Okay, that's all for me.
>
> Regards,
>
> Denise
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Knox
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 4:51 PM
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] let it snow
>
> Wow a lighted snowman from Teresa and nifty knitter snowman and a knit
> snowman, are we predicting a bad 2012?
> Terry K
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfb-krafters-korner:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:49:49 -0800
> From: Lovette Yewchan <lyewchan at telus.net>
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] let it snow
> Message-ID: <7ED41098-1A9C-47C1-9287-ED8191C245B3 at telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Does anyone know of free patterns for knitting Christmas coasters or
> inspirational Christmas patterns for knitting?
> THanks.
> Lovette
>
> On 2011-11-11, at 3:15 PM, Denise Shaible wrote:
>
>> I don't think we're sending any kind of bad message. I think people just
>> like snowmen. I know I do. They remind me of my childhood. does anyone
>> agree with this? Hey, what's this about a knit snowman? I know about
>> the safety pin beading one and the KK one but I didn't hear about a knit
>> one. Please let me know. Wow! I can't believe the amount of crafts
>> we're doing for the holidays and after the holidays. I love it. Keep it
>> coming. Maybe next year, I can do the candy tree. I would need time to
>> make one so I can get the exact amounts of candy, etc. If anyone has
>> done a candy tree, let me know and maybe that's a craft we want to do
>> even in December. We'll see. Its really very easy to make but you need a
>> certain amount of candy and pins to attach it. Okay, that's all for me.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Denise
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Terry Knox
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 4:51 PM
>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] let it snow
>>
>> Wow a lighted snowman from Teresa and nifty knitter snowman and a knit
>> snowman, are we predicting a bad 2012?
>> Terry K
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/lyewchan%40telus.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:07:05 -0800
> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
> Message-ID: <C70D51B8F9244BEC85190A1F13AC94AB at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hi Pipi,
>
> Welcome. I'm Denise Shaible and I live in California. Hi to any other
> new
> members. this list is growing so fast and it's great to meet all of you.
> I
> hope you take some classes so we can get to know each other by voice and
> not
> just by list. Pipi, I know you'll get lots of information about
> crocheting
> from the many folks on this list who do it.
>
> By the way, let me take this opportunity to ask a question of some of you
> who knit or crochet and who are totally blind. I have light perception
> and
> do all of my knitting by using my hands. I guess others out there can
> identify with this. Can any of you give me suggestions about how to
> mentor
> someone who has a little vision left and doesn't believe she can just use
> her hands? I met two people at the Braille Institute last Tuesday who are
> losing their vision and don't believe they can just use their hands. I
> think I put my foot in my mouth with one of them when she said she had to
> use her vision to see the congtrast between her yarn and needles. I had
> spent half an hour listening to this type of talk and I guess I just
> couldn't pass up the opportunity to say that she didn't need her vision.
> Maybe there's a better way.
>
> Our teacher has low vision and she does a great job with knitting and
> crocheting. In fact, she gave me the idea to want to crochet. I had the
> same experience as Pipi in that someone sighted tried to teach me. I
> remember the chain stitch so, maybe my teacher will be able to teach me.
> I
> don't know. I'm sure lots of you have opinions on this topic. I look
> forward to hearing from you. Again, welcome, Pipi and all of our other
> new
> members.
>
> Regards,
>
> Denise
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pipi
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:58 PM
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>
> Hey y'all,
> I joined the list a couple of days ago and thought I should introduce
> myself.
> I'm Pipi, from Kansas. I wanted to join the list because I've always
> wanted
> to learn how to crochet. I attempted to have my mom teach me years ago,
> but
> it didn't work for us. She didn't know how to teach a blind person and I
> didn't have enough vision to see what she was talking about.
> As far as crafts go, I have made several throw blankets and have been
> working on my own queen sized quilt for years. I don't know if I'm
> actually
> making an actual quilt because I don't know the proper way to do so, but I
> decided that I wanted to make myself one for my bed and went from there.
> I also do a bit of scrapbooking, mainly for my daughter's keepsakes and
> record of her life.
> How do I go about learning to crochet? I've noticed some classes that have
> happened and that will be happening in the future. Can someone give me a
> bit
> more information as to what these are about?
> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
> Pipi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfb-krafters-korner:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:45:25 -0600
> From: "Barb Roland" <barbwire59 at gmail.com>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Monitoring someone with low vision
> Message-ID: <319FD4D8FCE04413B83A4634D831DD5B at barbarahip3d9m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Denise, I can relate to the two ladies who are losing vision. I myself am
> slowly losing vision and have been doing so for the past 26 years.
> Sometimes
> I wish it would just happen and get it over with. With RP (retinitis
> pigmentosa) the vision loss is a slow process, we lose some, get adjusted
> then lose more and have to readjust again and again, it can be very
> frustrating and triing. When one is so use doing things one way, such as
> using their vision, it takes time to adjust to relearn how to do it
> differently. I feel for these ladies and understand how they are feeling
> right now, they will need time to adjust and relaearn how to do things.
> How to encourage them? Thats a hard one because everyone is different,
> first
> they will need to come to terms with their declining vision, then they
> will
> need to learn how to do things differently. They will need to start out
> small and build on their confidences with positive things. In trying to
> remember some of the changes I had to make as time went by was having to
> relearn how about brushing my teeth, with vision, one is taught to put
> the
> toothpaste on the toothbrush, as my vision got worst, I switched to a
> colored toothpaste so I would have the contrast between the brush and the
> paste, then my vision got worst and I had to figure a different way,
> someone
> suggested just swirting the paste into my mouth, this went against
> everything I had learned, but now it's second nature to me.
> They will need to start off small and simple, finding new ways of doing
> things. When I started crafting, first I had to find something that would
> not require me to use what sight I have left, but this was hard to do as I
> was still trying to use my vison, so having contrast was the way for me to
> get started, as I lost more vision and the contrast thingy was not working
> so well, I started learning to use my hands. I still try to use what
> vision
> I have left, but the more I craft (loom knit) the less I'm using my vision
> and just using my hands/fingers.
> Let them use what vision they have but encourage them to also use their
> hands to get use to how things feel, then encourage them to close their
> eyes
> and feel things.
> Hope this helps some.
> Barb R.
> Z6
>
> 'Just living is not enough,' said the butterfly, 'one must have sunshine,
> freedom and a little flower.' ~ Hans Christian Anderson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>
>
>> Hi Pipi,
>>
>> Welcome. I'm Denise Shaible and I live in California. Hi to any other
>> new members. this list is growing so fast and it's great to meet all of
>> you. I hope you take some classes so we can get to know each other by
>> voice and not just by list. Pipi, I know you'll get lots of information
>> about crocheting from the many folks on this list who do it.
>>
>> By the way, let me take this opportunity to ask a question of some of you
>> who knit or crochet and who are totally blind. I have light perception
>> and do all of my knitting by using my hands. I guess others out there
>> can
>> identify with this. Can any of you give me suggestions about how to
>> mentor someone who has a little vision left and doesn't believe she can
>> just use her hands? I met two people at the Braille Institute last
>> Tuesday who are losing their vision and don't believe they can just use
>> their hands. I think I put my foot in my mouth with one of them when she
>> said she had to use her vision to see the congtrast between her yarn and
>> needles. I had spent half an hour listening to this type of talk and I
>> guess I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to say that she didn't need
>> her vision. Maybe there's a better way.
>>
>> Our teacher has low vision and she does a great job with knitting and
>> crocheting. In fact, she gave me the idea to want to crochet. I had the
>> same experience as Pipi in that someone sighted tried to teach me. I
>> remember the chain stitch so, maybe my teacher will be able to teach me.
>> I don't know. I'm sure lots of you have opinions on this topic. I look
>> forward to hearing from you. Again, welcome, Pipi and all of our other
>> new members.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Denise
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pipi
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:58 PM
>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>>
>> Hey y'all,
>> I joined the list a couple of days ago and thought I should introduce
>> myself.
>> I'm Pipi, from Kansas. I wanted to join the list because I've always
>> wanted
>> to learn how to crochet. I attempted to have my mom teach me years ago,
>> but
>> it didn't work for us. She didn't know how to teach a blind person and I
>> didn't have enough vision to see what she was talking about.
>> As far as crafts go, I have made several throw blankets and have been
>> working on my own queen sized quilt for years. I don't know if I'm
>> actually
>> making an actual quilt because I don't know the proper way to do so, but
>> I
>> decided that I wanted to make myself one for my bed and went from there.
>> I also do a bit of scrapbooking, mainly for my daughter's keepsakes and
>> record of her life.
>> How do I go about learning to crochet? I've noticed some classes that
>> have
>> happened and that will be happening in the future. Can someone give me a
>> bit
>> more information as to what these are about?
>> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
>> Pipi
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/barbwire59%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 02:33:02 -0700
> From: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
> Message-ID: <FD27C5EE74204B2683EEFA7298CD73C9 at artistpc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> I would like to say that before you can develop confidence, you have to
> first believe in yourself. Until a person comes to terms with where they
> are, they really can't go anywhere else regardless of what we say or do.
> It
> is hard to let go of what you know and adventure into a newer unknown
> tactile world without vision. It seems to me that it is hardest on
> those
> who are told they will be blind in the future than with someone who is
> suddenly blind with no warning. When you have sight, it is hard to think
> of
> a world without it But you can be without sight and still have vision.
> If
> a person you won't is told he/she have sight in the future , can make
> them
> want cling to what they have as long as they can. The real truth is that
> if you are going blind, your fear of that prevents you from embracing the
> changes you need to make and preparing for them because you cannot
> imagine
> what it would be like. Sudden loss of sight , it seems to me, omits that
> fear and the adjustment comes quite quickly if you want to retain your
> independence The bridge from a sighted world to a tactile one is a
> giant
> step but not an impossible one. The best way we can help others across
> that
> bridge is to encourage them , be there for them and most importantly show
> them the joy and confidence you have found discovering all the new
> things
> you can do without reminding them the work it took for you to get there.
> If
> you are there, having fun, others will join in. If you portray things as
> difficult, you will probably not have many followers. After all, if
> your
> ladies did not like to knit when they had sight, chances are they may not
> want to do it blind. I have said in the past, we cannot let the darkness
> cripple us. We need to embrace the darkness and live a rich full in
> spite
> of it. I look at myself as a woman living in the absence of light, not a
> person struggling to live in the dark. Off my soap box now, Hugs,
> JoAn
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:18:10 -0500
> From: "Annette Carr" <amcarr1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'Barb Roland'" <barbwire59 at gmail.com>, "'List for blind crafters
> and artists'" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Monitoring someone with low vision
> Message-ID: <002901cca13d$872c34c0$95849e40$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Barb and All,
>
> It always amazes me how different our experiences with RP is while being
> the
> same. Yes, the toothpaste is one of those turning points. I resorted to
> squeezing the paste on my finger until I could come to terms with
> squirting
> it right into my mouth.
>
> For some people, learning to do their favorite craft or hobby without
> looking is what helps them to make that transition in other parts of their
> life. For others, they have to tackle that hurdle in some other part of
> their life before they can do it with their crafting. Go ahead and offer
> suggestions on how to do things through touch and if they are not ready to
> try that, let it go. When they are ready they will recall your words and
> be
> ready to give it a try.
>
> Don't bombard them with alternative ways to do things. Listen to their
> questions and provide answers to those specific questions. If they are
> asking, then that is what they are ready to tackle. Sometimes you might
> need to give a little push, but be ready to back off if needed.
>
> Annette
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barb Roland
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:45 PM
> To: List for blind crafters and artists
> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Monitoring someone with low vision
>
> Denise, I can relate to the two ladies who are losing vision. I myself am
> slowly losing vision and have been doing so for the past 26 years.
> Sometimes
> I wish it would just happen and get it over with. With RP (retinitis
> pigmentosa) the vision loss is a slow process, we lose some, get adjusted
> then lose more and have to readjust again and again, it can be very
> frustrating and triing. When one is so use doing things one way, such as
> using their vision, it takes time to adjust to relearn how to do it
> differently. I feel for these ladies and understand how they are feeling
> right now, they will need time to adjust and relaearn how to do things.
> How to encourage them? Thats a hard one because everyone is different,
> first
> they will need to come to terms with their declining vision, then they
> will
> need to learn how to do things differently. They will need to start out
> small and build on their confidences with positive things. In trying to
> remember some of the changes I had to make as time went by was having to
> relearn how about brushing my teeth, with vision, one is taught to put
> the
> toothpaste on the toothbrush, as my vision got worst, I switched to a
> colored toothpaste so I would have the contrast between the brush and the
> paste, then my vision got worst and I had to figure a different way,
> someone
> suggested just swirting the paste into my mouth, this went against
> everything I had learned, but now it's second nature to me.
> They will need to start off small and simple, finding new ways of doing
> things. When I started crafting, first I had to find something that would
> not require me to use what sight I have left, but this was hard to do as I
> was still trying to use my vison, so having contrast was the way for me to
> get started, as I lost more vision and the contrast thingy was not working
> so well, I started learning to use my hands. I still try to use what
> vision
> I have left, but the more I craft (loom knit) the less I'm using my vision
> and just using my hands/fingers.
> Let them use what vision they have but encourage them to also use their
> hands to get use to how things feel, then encourage them to close their
> eyes
> and feel things.
> Hope this helps some.
> Barb R.
> Z6
>
> 'Just living is not enough,' said the butterfly, 'one must have sunshine,
> freedom and a little flower.' ~ Hans Christian Anderson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>
>
>> Hi Pipi,
>>
>> Welcome. I'm Denise Shaible and I live in California. Hi to any
>> other new members. this list is growing so fast and it's great to
>> meet all of you. I hope you take some classes so we can get to know
>> each other by voice and not just by list. Pipi, I know you'll get
>> lots of information about crocheting from the many folks on this list who
> do it.
>>
>> By the way, let me take this opportunity to ask a question of some of
>> you who knit or crochet and who are totally blind. I have light
>> perception and do all of my knitting by using my hands. I guess
>> others out there can identify with this. Can any of you give me
>> suggestions about how to mentor someone who has a little vision left
>> and doesn't believe she can just use her hands? I met two people at
>> the Braille Institute last Tuesday who are losing their vision and
>> don't believe they can just use their hands. I think I put my foot in
>> my mouth with one of them when she said she had to use her vision to
>> see the congtrast between her yarn and needles. I had spent half an
>> hour listening to this type of talk and I guess I just couldn't pass
>> up the opportunity to say that she didn't need her vision. Maybe there's
>> a
> better way.
>>
>> Our teacher has low vision and she does a great job with knitting and
>> crocheting. In fact, she gave me the idea to want to crochet. I had
>> the same experience as Pipi in that someone sighted tried to teach me.
>> I remember the chain stitch so, maybe my teacher will be able to teach
>> me.
>> I don't know. I'm sure lots of you have opinions on this topic. I
>> look forward to hearing from you. Again, welcome, Pipi and all of our
>> other new members.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Denise
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pipi
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:58 PM
>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>>
>> Hey y'all,
>> I joined the list a couple of days ago and thought I should introduce
>> myself.
>> I'm Pipi, from Kansas. I wanted to join the list because I've always
>> wanted to learn how to crochet. I attempted to have my mom teach me
>> years ago, but it didn't work for us. She didn't know how to teach a
>> blind person and I didn't have enough vision to see what she was
>> talking about.
>> As far as crafts go, I have made several throw blankets and have been
>> working on my own queen sized quilt for years. I don't know if I'm
>> actually making an actual quilt because I don't know the proper way to
>> do so, but I decided that I wanted to make myself one for my bed and
>> went from there.
>> I also do a bit of scrapbooking, mainly for my daughter's keepsakes
>> and record of her life.
>> How do I go about learning to crochet? I've noticed some classes that
>> have happened and that will be happening in the future. Can someone
>> give me a bit more information as to what these are about?
>> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
>> Pipi
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denis
>> e.shaible%40att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/barbw
>> ire59%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfb-krafters-korner:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/amcarr1%40v
> erizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:19:47 -0500
> From: "River Woman" <riverwoman at zoominternet.net>
> To: "Barb Roland" <barbwire59 at gmail.com>, "List for blind crafters and
> artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Monitoring someone with low vision
> Message-ID: <7DA79EBC64DB4812B853EF616516D175 at Lambert>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Dinise,
> I think I am very fortunate because my sight loss happened suddenly and
> with
> no forewarning. I have Ischemic Optic Neuropathy. It happens instantly -
> one
> minute you can see, the next, you are plunged into a perpetual fog.
>
> I immediately had to figure out how to do things - like how to trim my
> toenails when I cannot see the clipper or the toes. And, yes, the tooth
> paste - a squirt into the mouth does it just fine. After 5 months of sight
> loss, I got into a rehab program at Homestead, PA and it taught me how to
> live my life with no holds barred. At times I did not like my situation at
> all, and frankly, there are still moments when I am "pissed off" about it.
> But those are just moments and I never let them take over. There are lots
> of times when I am very aware of my blindness and those times can be
> frustrating.
>
> My advice to everyone, get HELP right away. Don't think that you are not
> yet
> ready for help, or that you don't want to go down that road yet. You are
> already on that road, and the sooner you learn how to adapt to sight loss
> the better it is for you and everyone around you. And, finally, nobody who
> has not had sight loss has a CLUE about how it feels even if they are a
> rehab teacher. If you are not living this life 24/7 you have no idea what
> it
> "feels" like - don't even bother to debate that point. The sooner you get
> over the pity party, the sooner you can be on to your LIFE. It is a GREAT
> LIFE, with or without sight and that is the bottom line for me.
>
> I would realy urge anyone who is beginning sight loss to get involved in
> whatever rehab program is available to them and to fully emprace it and
> learn about adaptations from people who have made those adaptations
> themselves. They will be so much more independent and confident once they
> do.
>
> Lynda River Woman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barb Roland" <barbwire59 at gmail.com>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:45 PM
> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Monitoring someone with low vision
>
>
>> Denise, I can relate to the two ladies who are losing vision. I myself am
>> slowly losing vision and have been doing so for the past 26 years.
>> Sometimes I wish it would just happen and get it over with. With RP
>> (retinitis pigmentosa) the vision loss is a slow process, we lose some,
>> get adjusted then lose more and have to readjust again and again, it can
>> be very frustrating and triing. When one is so use doing things one way,
>> such as using their vision, it takes time to adjust to relearn how to do
>> it differently. I feel for these ladies and understand how they are
>> feeling right now, they will need time to adjust and relaearn how to do
>> things.
>> How to encourage them? Thats a hard one because everyone is different,
>> first they will need to come to terms with their declining vision, then
>> they will need to learn how to do things differently. They will need to
>> start out small and build on their confidences with positive things. In
>> trying to remember some of the changes I had to make as time went by was
>> having to relearn how about brushing my teeth, with vision, one is
>> taught
>> to put the toothpaste on the toothbrush, as my vision got worst, I
>> switched to a colored toothpaste so I would have the contrast between the
>> brush and the paste, then my vision got worst and I had to figure a
>> different way, someone suggested just swirting the paste into my mouth,
>> this went against everything I had learned, but now it's second nature to
>> me.
>> They will need to start off small and simple, finding new ways of doing
>> things. When I started crafting, first I had to find something that would
>> not require me to use what sight I have left, but this was hard to do as
>> I
>> was still trying to use my vison, so having contrast was the way for me
>> to
>> get started, as I lost more vision and the contrast thingy was not
>> working
>> so well, I started learning to use my hands. I still try to use what
>> vision I have left, but the more I craft (loom knit) the less I'm using
>> my
>> vision and just using my hands/fingers.
>> Let them use what vision they have but encourage them to also use their
>> hands to get use to how things feel, then encourage them to close their
>> eyes and feel things.
>> Hope this helps some.
>> Barb R.
>> Z6
>>
>> 'Just living is not enough,' said the butterfly, 'one must have sunshine,
>> freedom and a little flower.' ~ Hans Christian Anderson
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Denise Shaible" <denise.shaible at att.net>
>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>>
>>
>>> Hi Pipi,
>>>
>>> Welcome. I'm Denise Shaible and I live in California. Hi to any other
>>> new members. this list is growing so fast and it's great to meet all of
>>> you. I hope you take some classes so we can get to know each other by
>>> voice and not just by list. Pipi, I know you'll get lots of information
>>> about crocheting from the many folks on this list who do it.
>>>
>>> By the way, let me take this opportunity to ask a question of some of
>>> you
>>> who knit or crochet and who are totally blind. I have light perception
>>> and do all of my knitting by using my hands. I guess others out there
>>> can identify with this. Can any of you give me suggestions about how
>>> to
>>> mentor someone who has a little vision left and doesn't believe she can
>>> just use her hands? I met two people at the Braille Institute last
>>> Tuesday who are losing their vision and don't believe they can just use
>>> their hands. I think I put my foot in my mouth with one of them when
>>> she
>>> said she had to use her vision to see the congtrast between her yarn and
>>> needles. I had spent half an hour listening to this type of talk and I
>>> guess I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to say that she didn't
>>> need
>>> her vision. Maybe there's a better way.
>>>
>>> Our teacher has low vision and she does a great job with knitting and
>>> crocheting. In fact, she gave me the idea to want to crochet. I had
>>> the
>>> same experience as Pipi in that someone sighted tried to teach me. I
>>> remember the chain stitch so, maybe my teacher will be able to teach me.
>>> I don't know. I'm sure lots of you have opinions on this topic. I look
>>> forward to hearing from you. Again, welcome, Pipi and all of our other
>>> new members.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Pipi
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:58 PM
>>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>>> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>>>
>>> Hey y'all,
>>> I joined the list a couple of days ago and thought I should introduce
>>> myself.
>>> I'm Pipi, from Kansas. I wanted to join the list because I've always
>>> wanted
>>> to learn how to crochet. I attempted to have my mom teach me years ago,
>>> but
>>> it didn't work for us. She didn't know how to teach a blind person and I
>>> didn't have enough vision to see what she was talking about.
>>> As far as crafts go, I have made several throw blankets and have been
>>> working on my own queen sized quilt for years. I don't know if I'm
>>> actually
>>> making an actual quilt because I don't know the proper way to do so, but
>>> I
>>> decided that I wanted to make myself one for my bed and went from there.
>>> I also do a bit of scrapbooking, mainly for my daughter's keepsakes and
>>> record of her life.
>>> How do I go about learning to crochet? I've noticed some classes that
>>> have
>>> happened and that will be happening in the future. Can someone give me a
>>> bit
>>> more information as to what these are about?
>>> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
>>> Pipi
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/denise.shaible%40att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/barbwire59%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/riverwoman%40zoominternet.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 08:23:34 -0500
> From: "River Woman" <riverwoman at zoominternet.net>
> To: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>, "List for blind crafters and
> artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
> Message-ID: <49C61D21E7A04AE891277BDDC28E7533 at Lambert>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Wow, I read this after I posted my comment's to Barb's note. This is so
> true. I think that losing ones sight suddently and with no warning is an
> enormous blessing rather than dragging along knowing that something is
> coming on the road ahead, something unwanted. Sight Loss! You are forced
> to
> make a decision, quickly, to move on and figure out how you will NOW
> experience your LIFE. I view it, mostly, as a great adventure. It is an
> adventure I would never have chosen, but it came to me anyway. And, I am
> thankful for every day, evry little step forward, and every new
> achievement.
> Amen, sister!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 4:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>
>
>>I would like to say that before you can develop confidence, you have to
>>first believe in yourself. Until a person comes to terms with where they
>>are, they really can't go anywhere else regardless of what we say or do.
>>It is hard to let go of what you know and adventure into a newer unknown
>>tactile world without vision. It seems to me that it is hardest on
>>those
>>who are told they will be blind in the future than with someone who is
>>suddenly blind with no warning. When you have sight, it is hard to think
>>of a world without it But you can be without sight and still have vision.
>>If a person you won't is told he/she have sight in the future , can make
>>them want cling to what they have as long as they can. The real truth is
>>that if you are going blind, your fear of that prevents you from embracing
>>the changes you need to make and preparing for them because you cannot
>>imagine what it would be like. Sudden loss of sight , it seems to me,
>>omits that fear and the adjustment comes quite quickly if you want to
>>retain your independence The bridge from a sighted world to a tactile
>>one is a giant step but not an impossible one. The best way we can help
>>others across that bridge is to encourage them , be there for them and
>>most
>>importantly show them the joy and confidence you have found discovering
>>all the new things you can do without reminding them the work it took for
>>you to get there. If you are there, having fun, others will join in. If
>>you portray things as difficult, you will probably not have many
>>followers.
>>After all, if your ladies did not like to knit when they had sight,
>>chances
>>are they may not want to do it blind. I have said in the past, we cannot
>>let the darkness cripple us. We need to embrace the darkness and live a
>>rich full in spite of it. I look at myself as a woman living in the
>>absence of light, not a person struggling to live in the dark. Off
>>my
>>soap box now, Hugs, JoAn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/riverwoman%40zoominternet.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:10:55 -0700
> From: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>
> To: "River Woman" <riverwoman at zoominternet.net>, "List for blind
> crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
> Message-ID: <A4861344C5304D2DAAC9FF195FADE0C4 at artistpc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Linda, Amen! I told you I think we are kindred spirits Now, I am more
> convinced. My blindness is a gift. I received it on my birthday and
> continue to be blessed by it. JoAn. ----- Original Message -----
> From: "River Woman" <riverwoman at zoominternet.net>
> To: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>; "List for blind crafters and
> artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 6:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>
>
>> Wow, I read this after I posted my comment's to Barb's note. This is so
>> true. I think that losing ones sight suddently and with no warning is an
>> enormous blessing rather than dragging along knowing that something is
>> coming on the road ahead, something unwanted. Sight Loss! You are forced
>> to make a decision, quickly, to move on and figure out how you will NOW
>> experience your LIFE. I view it, mostly, as a great adventure. It is an
>> adventure I would never have chosen, but it came to me anyway. And, I am
>> thankful for every day, evry little step forward, and every new
>> achievement. Amen, sister!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "artist" <imanartist at earthlink.net>
>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 4:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] Hi from a new member.
>>
>>
>>>I would like to say that before you can develop confidence, you have to
>>>first believe in yourself. Until a person comes to terms with where
>>>they
>>>are, they really can't go anywhere else regardless of what we say or do.
>>>It is hard to let go of what you know and adventure into a newer unknown
>>>tactile world without vision. It seems to me that it is hardest on
>>>those who are told they will be blind in the future than with someone who
>>>is suddenly blind with no warning. When you have sight, it is hard to
>>>think of a world without it But you can be without sight and still have
>>>vision. If a person you won't is told he/she have sight in the future ,
>>>can make them want cling to what they have as long as they can. The
>>>real
>>>truth is that if you are going blind, your fear of that prevents you from
>>>embracing the changes you need to make and preparing for them because
>>>you
>>>cannot imagine what it would be like. Sudden loss of sight , it seems to
>>>me, omits that fear and the adjustment comes quite quickly if you want to
>>>retain your independence The bridge from a sighted world to a tactile
>>>one is a giant step but not an impossible one. The best way we can help
>>>others across that bridge is to encourage them , be there for them and
>>>most importantly show them the joy and confidence you have found
>>>discovering all the new things you can do without reminding them the work
>>>it took for you to get there. If you are there, having fun, others will
>>>join in. If you portray things as difficult, you will probably not have
>>>many followers. After all, if your ladies did not like to knit when they
>>>had sight, chances are they may not want to do it blind. I have said in
>>>the past, we cannot let the darkness cripple us. We need to embrace the
>>>darkness and live a rich full in spite of it. I look at myself as a
>>>woman living in the absence of light, not a person struggling to live in
>>>the dark. Off my soap box now, Hugs, JoAn
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/riverwoman%40zoominternet.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of Nfb-krafters-korner Digest, Vol 52, Issue 14
> ***************************************************
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4612 - Release Date: 11/12/11
>
More information about the NFB-Krafters-Korner
mailing list