[nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing

Thu Oct 15 17:37:58 UTC 2009

i know that from the past but won't express any opinion good or bad about 
the theory on here.

Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chad Allen" <chad at chadallenmagic.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing

> It is considered a requirement for graduation from the center. Everything 
> is discussed prior to enrollment and is simply par for the course.
>
> -original message-
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 10/15/2009 10:31 AM
>
> oh yea,
>
> try getting out of it!
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
>> No one is forced.  It is, to my knowledge, just an option.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>>> I'm unclear as to the purpose of these centers? Do people go to them for
>>> the opportunity to do things like rock climbing?  Because I would 
>>> imagine
>>> that if the NFB didn't provide opportunities like that, it would be very
>>> difficult to find them otherwise. I can't imagine most rock climbing
>>> places letting blind people participate. Heck, one time I tried to sign
>>> up for a wood working class and they kicked me out when they found out I
>>> was blind.
>>>
>>> But if a person wants to work on his job and mobility skills, he
>>> shouldn't be forced to climb rocks. I wouldn't have a problem with state
>>> governments supporting recreational facilities for the blind. But if
>>> these centers are intended primarily as rehab centers, then they
>>> shouldn't be forcing people to climb rocks.
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Jim and listers,
>>>>
>>>>    Okay let me take a stab at this one. I'll insert my comments
>>>> following
>>>> yours and will indicate them with the letter A. Here goes:
>>>>
>>>> Hello all!
>>>>
>>>> Do all NFB centers insist that clients rock climb?  I'm referring to 
>>>> the
>>>> three NFB centers in Minnesota, Colorado, and Louisiana as well as
>>>> centers
>>>> which are a part of a state's rehab program as is the case in Iowa and
>>>> Nebraska?
>>>>
>>>> A. Yes
>>>>
>>>>  Can a client be exempt from this exercise due to health, age or
>>>> other complications?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>    Each case is considered on an individual basis.
>>>>
>>>> Have people been denied services from all of the above
>>>> agencies if they refused to rock climb or they obtained a doctor's
>>>> statement
>>>> that they shouldn't engage in such activity?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>    Recall the discussion of informed choice we've had from 
>>>> time-to-time.
>>>> These centers have a set curriculum students are required to take
>>>> including
>>>> participation in recreational activities such as rock climbing. 
>>>> Such
>>>> exemptions could be viewed as attempts by center students to "Menuize"
>>>> the
>>>> training. They never realize the full benefit of the program if they
>>>> attempt
>>>> to "Water down" these center curriculums by requesting exemptions from
>>>> this
>>>> or that part of the training. Here again each case is considered on an
>>>> individual basis.
>>>>
>>>>  What exempts people from this
>>>> activity and if they are exempt, can they still receive services from
>>>> our
>>>> NFB agencies?
>>>>
>>>>    A.
>>>>    Much of my answer can be found above but I'll add here that if a
>>>> student
>>>> chooses not to participate in a class or activity all center students
>>>> must
>>>> attend or take part in they should reconsider their choice of
>>>> orientation
>>>> and adjustment center if they're unwilling to participate in the entire
>>>> center curriculum.
>>>>
>>>> A friend of mine returned from one of these centers.  He has a badly
>>>> sprained leg or he has pulled ligaments in his leg!  Needless to say, 
>>>> he
>>>> is
>>>> out of the program or is immobile for an undetermined amount of time!
>>>> This
>>>> person was otherwise happy with the program and I commend this person
>>>> for
>>>> giving it a good try but I think there comes a time when a person my 
>>>> age
>>>> who
>>>> is twice 30 shouldn't attempt such a thing!  If I were in my 20s and
>>>> 30s, I
>>>> wouldn't question this but when one is in their late 40s and beyond, 
>>>> I'd
>>>> question whether this is such a good idea!
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?A.
>>>>
>>>>    Our centers have had students in their 80s participate in roc
>>>> climbing,
>>>> skydiving, and other high-impact activities. There are several accounts
>>>> of
>>>> blind senior citizens that attended our centers and participated in all
>>>> aspects of their programs and had a darn good time doing so published 
>>>> in
>>>> The
>>>> Braille Monitor. Your friend needs to not allow his accident prevent 
>>>> him
>>>> from returning to the NFB center to finish his training. There are
>>>> numerous
>>>> accounts of students who due to accident or illness were unable to
>>>> complete
>>>> the initial part of their training but returned later to finish. This
>>>> should
>>>> not be a problem.
>>>>
>>>>    As far as doctors exemptions go remember that health care
>>>> professionals
>>>> are influanced by the same prevailing attitudes and beliefs about
>>>> blindness
>>>> and our capabilities as is the general public. It would be easy for a
>>>> doctor
>>>> to "issue a letter requesting that a student not be required to
>>>> participate
>>>> in this or that part of the center program due to these mistaken
>>>> attitudes
>>>> and beliefs about the blind. What happens if that same doctor is
>>>> presented
>>>> with a health report for a blind individual in their 80s wishing to
>>>> attend a
>>>> sports camp where rock climbing is one of the activities offered and
>>>> that
>>>> patient chooses to participate in that activity. There's the 
>>>> possibility
>>>> that the doctor may discourage this person from engaging in rock
>>>> climbing
>>>> even though the person is healthy. They can thank the patient who
>>>> mistakenly
>>>> believed that older blind individuals shouldn't participate in this
>>>> activity. Let me recommend that you take some rock climbing lessons and
>>>> then
>>>> reread your post.
>>>>
>>>>    I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue for you. All the
>>>> best.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 4510 (20091015) Information __________
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org 