[nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
Alan
awheeler at neb.rr.com
Thu Oct 15 18:01:07 UTC 2009
Okay, on the one hand, you're right, I shouldn't assume. The thing is, I
see enough people on the NFB lists who want to do nothing more than bash the
NFB and simply for the sake of bashing them, and so I get a bit wary. If a
person shows me they genuinely want to help the NFB improve, I'll listen to
them. Until then, my "basher" alert tends to go off.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
> Alan,
>
> You shouldn't assume that anyone who disagrees with an NFB policy is
> biased against them. Bryan may have very good reasons for his criticism.
> In fact, it's harmful to the NFB to blame people for merely criticizing
> the NFB. If the NFB is doing something wrong, how is it to improve if
> people don't criticize it? And being harsh toward those who criticize the
> NFB would tend to drive them out. You wouldn't want the NFB to be left as
> nothing more than a collection of true believers, would you?
>
> If the NFB isn't wrong, then simply explaining that is the best approach.
> People tend to see the truth and be persuaded by it. Truth itself has
> power.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
>> Hmmm, biased against the centers, are we?
>>
>> Personally, I think it's a nice approach, and they don't act like nazis
>> or dictators about it, either.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> the gobbly goop explanation is that you will gain confidence from the
>>> rock climbing so you can transfer that to other tasks that seem
>>> impossible to you.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm unclear as to the purpose of these centers? Do people go to them
>>>> for the opportunity to do things like rock climbing? Because I would
>>>> imagine that if the NFB didn't provide opportunities like that, it
>>>> would be very difficult to find them otherwise. I can't imagine most
>>>> rock climbing places letting blind people participate. Heck, one time I
>>>> tried to sign up for a wood working class and they kicked me out when
>>>> they found out I was blind.
>>>>
>>>> But if a person wants to work on his job and mobility skills, he
>>>> shouldn't be forced to climb rocks. I wouldn't have a problem with
>>>> state governments supporting recreational facilities for the blind. But
>>>> if these centers are intended primarily as rehab centers, then they
>>>> shouldn't be forcing people to climb rocks.
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:17 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Jim and listers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay let me take a stab at this one. I'll insert my comments
>>>>> following
>>>>> yours and will indicate them with the letter A. Here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do all NFB centers insist that clients rock climb? I'm referring to
>>>>> the
>>>>> three NFB centers in Minnesota, Colorado, and Louisiana as well as
>>>>> centers
>>>>> which are a part of a state's rehab program as is the case in Iowa and
>>>>> Nebraska?
>>>>>
>>>>> A. Yes
>>>>>
>>>>> Can a client be exempt from this exercise due to health, age or
>>>>> other complications?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>> Each case is considered on an individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have people been denied services from all of the above
>>>>> agencies if they refused to rock climb or they obtained a doctor's
>>>>> statement
>>>>> that they shouldn't engage in such activity?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>> Recall the discussion of informed choice we've had from
>>>>> time-to-time.
>>>>> These centers have a set curriculum students are required to take
>>>>> including
>>>>> participation in recreational activities such as rock climbing. Such
>>>>> exemptions could be viewed as attempts by center students to "Menuize"
>>>>> the
>>>>> training. They never realize the full benefit of the program if they
>>>>> attempt
>>>>> to "Water down" these center curriculums by requesting exemptions from
>>>>> this
>>>>> or that part of the training. Here again each case is considered on an
>>>>> individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> What exempts people from this
>>>>> activity and if they are exempt, can they still receive services from
>>>>> our
>>>>> NFB agencies?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>> Much of my answer can be found above but I'll add here that if a
>>>>> student
>>>>> chooses not to participate in a class or activity all center students
>>>>> must
>>>>> attend or take part in they should reconsider their choice of
>>>>> orientation
>>>>> and adjustment center if they're unwilling to participate in the
>>>>> entire
>>>>> center curriculum.
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend of mine returned from one of these centers. He has a badly
>>>>> sprained leg or he has pulled ligaments in his leg! Needless to say,
>>>>> he is
>>>>> out of the program or is immobile for an undetermined amount of time!
>>>>> This
>>>>> person was otherwise happy with the program and I commend this person
>>>>> for
>>>>> giving it a good try but I think there comes a time when a person my
>>>>> age who
>>>>> is twice 30 shouldn't attempt such a thing! If I were in my 20s and
>>>>> 30s, I
>>>>> wouldn't question this but when one is in their late 40s and beyond,
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> question whether this is such a good idea!
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts?A.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our centers have had students in their 80s participate in roc
>>>>> climbing,
>>>>> skydiving, and other high-impact activities. There are several
>>>>> accounts of
>>>>> blind senior citizens that attended our centers and participated in
>>>>> all
>>>>> aspects of their programs and had a darn good time doing so published
>>>>> in The
>>>>> Braille Monitor. Your friend needs to not allow his accident prevent
>>>>> him
>>>>> from returning to the NFB center to finish his training. There are
>>>>> numerous
>>>>> accounts of students who due to accident or illness were unable to
>>>>> complete
>>>>> the initial part of their training but returned later to finish. This
>>>>> should
>>>>> not be a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as doctors exemptions go remember that health care
>>>>> professionals
>>>>> are influanced by the same prevailing attitudes and beliefs about
>>>>> blindness
>>>>> and our capabilities as is the general public. It would be easy for a
>>>>> doctor
>>>>> to "issue a letter requesting that a student not be required to
>>>>> participate
>>>>> in this or that part of the center program due to these mistaken
>>>>> attitudes
>>>>> and beliefs about the blind. What happens if that same doctor is
>>>>> presented
>>>>> with a health report for a blind individual in their 80s wishing to
>>>>> attend a
>>>>> sports camp where rock climbing is one of the activities offered and
>>>>> that
>>>>> patient chooses to participate in that activity. There's the
>>>>> possibility
>>>>> that the doctor may discourage this person from engaging in rock
>>>>> climbing
>>>>> even though the person is healthy. They can thank the patient who
>>>>> mistakenly
>>>>> believed that older blind individuals shouldn't participate in this
>>>>> activity. Let me recommend that you take some rock climbing lessons
>>>>> and then
>>>>> reread your post.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue for you. All the
>>>>> best.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 4510 (20091015) Information __________
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
> __________ NOD32 4511 (20091015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
More information about the nFB-Talk
mailing list