[nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing

Alan awheeler at neb.rr.com
Fri Oct 16 01:12:17 UTC 2009 

BLIND, Inc does not have rock climbing.  I can state that for a fact as a 
former employee of that center.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Aldrich" <jajkaldrich at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing


> Hello Peter and all,
>
> So far, I have noted that not all NFB centers have the rock climbing
> activity.  If I'm wrong, let me know!  I'd probably go to the one which 
> does
> not have this activity at this point in time!  I do know a friend of mine
> was injured to the point where he had to come home and no telling how long
> he'll be recovering from his injuries.  He might bring a doctor's 
> statement
> which says he should not participate in this activity!  If this is so, I
> hope this is noted and he can continue with his training despite what had
> happened!  If not, I wouldn't be surprised if a given center might not be
> taken to task for this legally if service is in fact denied!  All of this 
> is
> most interesting!  My friend is probably one of the few which may have had
> problems which is a good thing of course!  As for myself, I don't see 
> myself
> coming to an NFB Center any time soon!  This will be left to younger 
> people!
> Rock Climbing isn't on my agenda presently till the time I may need to
> consider such activity!  I think an NFB center deals nicely with blindness
> but not sure about programs for aging persons, multi disabilities etc.  I
> guess before I attend any of the NFB centers myself, I'd like to know how
> and where exceptions if any are made!  I think it is good to know that
> people are considered on a case by case situation!  Unfortunately, not 
> many
> other centers conduct themselves in the same fashion as an NFB center.
>
> Perhaps I should apologize for stepping on a sacred cow or two but I have 
> a
> right to be concerned!  After all, I am a member of this organization 
> myself
> for better or for worse (grin smile)!  I do like to know that people are
> indeed being treated fairly and are given the best opportunities possible
> despite other challenges.  That's all!
>
> Thanks for reading!
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Chad Allen" <chad at chadallenmagic.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>    Exactly. Anyone who doesn't want to fulfill this requirement for
> successful completion of training at one of our centers needs to rethink
> their choice of orientation and adjustment center. Informed choice rules!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chad Allen" <chad at chadallenmagic.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
> It is considered a requirement for graduation from the center. Everything 
> is
> discussed prior to enrollment and is simply par for the course.
>
> -original message-
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 10/15/2009 10:31 AM
>
> oh yea,
>
> try getting out of it!
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
>> No one is forced.  It is, to my knowledge, just an option.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>>> I'm unclear as to the purpose of these centers? Do people go to them for
>>> the opportunity to do things like rock climbing?  Because I would 
>>> imagine
>>> that if the NFB didn't provide opportunities like that, it would be very
>>> difficult to find them otherwise. I can't imagine most rock climbing
>>> places letting blind people participate. Heck, one time I tried to sign
>>> up for a wood working class and they kicked me out when they found out I
>>> was blind.
>>>
>>> But if a person wants to work on his job and mobility skills, he
>>> shouldn't be forced to climb rocks. I wouldn't have a problem with state
>>> governments supporting recreational facilities for the blind. But if
>>> these centers are intended primarily as rehab centers, then they
>>> shouldn't be forcing people to climb rocks.
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Jim and listers,
>>>>
>>>>    Okay let me take a stab at this one. I'll insert my comments
>>>> following
>>>> yours and will indicate them with the letter A. Here goes:
>>>>
>>>> Hello all!
>>>>
>>>> Do all NFB centers insist that clients rock climb?  I'm referring to 
>>>> the
>>>> three NFB centers in Minnesota, Colorado, and Louisiana as well as
>>>> centers
>>>> which are a part of a state's rehab program as is the case in Iowa and
>>>> Nebraska?
>>>>
>>>> A. Yes
>>>>
>>>>  Can a client be exempt from this exercise due to health, age or
>>>> other complications?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>    Each case is considered on an individual basis.
>>>>
>>>> Have people been denied services from all of the above
>>>> agencies if they refused to rock climb or they obtained a doctor's
>>>> statement
>>>> that they shouldn't engage in such activity?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>    Recall the discussion of informed choice we've had from 
>>>> time-to-time.
>>>> These centers have a set curriculum students are required to take
>>>> including
>>>> participation in recreational activities such as rock climbing. 
>>>> Such
>>>> exemptions could be viewed as attempts by center students to "Menuize"
>>>> the
>>>> training. They never realize the full benefit of the program if they
>>>> attempt
>>>> to "Water down" these center curriculums by requesting exemptions from
>>>> this
>>>> or that part of the training. Here again each case is considered on an
>>>> individual basis.
>>>>
>>>>  What exempts people from this
>>>> activity and if they are exempt, can they still receive services from
>>>> our
>>>> NFB agencies?
>>>>
>>>>    A.
>>>>    Much of my answer can be found above but I'll add here that if a
>>>> student
>>>> chooses not to participate in a class or activity all center students
>>>> must
>>>> attend or take part in they should reconsider their choice of
>>>> orientation
>>>> and adjustment center if they're unwilling to participate in the entire
>>>> center curriculum.
>>>>
>>>> A friend of mine returned from one of these centers.  He has a badly
>>>> sprained leg or he has pulled ligaments in his leg!  Needless to say, 
>>>> he
>>>> is
>>>> out of the program or is immobile for an undetermined amount of time!
>>>> This
>>>> person was otherwise happy with the program and I commend this person
>>>> for
>>>> giving it a good try but I think there comes a time when a person my 
>>>> age
>>>> who
>>>> is twice 30 shouldn't attempt such a thing!  If I were in my 20s and
>>>> 30s, I
>>>> wouldn't question this but when one is in their late 40s and beyond, 
>>>> I'd
>>>> question whether this is such a good idea!
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?A.
>>>>
>>>>    Our centers have had students in their 80s participate in roc
>>>> climbing,
>>>> skydiving, and other high-impact activities. There are several accounts
>>>> of
>>>> blind senior citizens that attended our centers and participated in all
>>>> aspects of their programs and had a darn good time doing so published 
>>>> in
>>>> The
>>>> Braille Monitor. Your friend needs to not allow his accident prevent 
>>>> him
>>>> from returning to the NFB center to finish his training. There are
>>>> numerous
>>>> accounts of students who due to accident or illness were unable to
>>>> complete
>>>> the initial part of their training but returned later to finish. This
>>>> should
>>>> not be a problem.
>>>>
>>>>    As far as doctors exemptions go remember that health care
>>>> professionals
>>>> are influanced by the same prevailing attitudes and beliefs about
>>>> blindness
>>>> and our capabilities as is the general public. It would be easy for a
>>>> doctor
>>>> to "issue a letter requesting that a student not be required to
>>>> participate
>>>> in this or that part of the center program due to these mistaken
>>>> attitudes
>>>> and beliefs about the blind. What happens if that same doctor is
>>>> presented
>>>> with a health report for a blind individual in their 80s wishing to
>>>> attend a
>>>> sports camp where rock climbing is one of the activities offered and
>>>> that
>>>> patient chooses to participate in that activity. There's the 
>>>> possibility
>>>> that the doctor may discourage this person from engaging in rock
>>>> climbing
>>>> even though the person is healthy. They can thank the patient who
>>>> mistakenly
>>>> believed that older blind individuals shouldn't participate in this
>>>> activity. Let me recommend that you take some rock climbing lessons and
>>>> then
>>>> reread your post.
>>>>
>>>>    I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue for you. All the
>>>> best.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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