[nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing

[David Andrews]

You can't ask us not to read anything into your explanation when you 
use words like gobbldy goop!

Dave

   At 12:35 PM 10/15/2009, you wrote:
>don't read anything extra into it.
>not at all.
>i was just telling jim what the theory is.
>
>Bryan Schulz
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
>>Hmmm, biased against the centers, are we?
>>
>>Personally, I think it's a nice approach, and they don't act like 
>>nazis or dictators about it, either.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>>>hi,
>>>
>>>the gobbly goop explanation is that you will gain confidence from 
>>>the rock climbing so you can transfer that to other tasks that 
>>>seem impossible to you.
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:03 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm unclear as to the purpose of these centers? Do people go to 
>>>>them for the opportunity to do things like rock 
>>>>climbing?  Because I would imagine that if the NFB didn't provide 
>>>>opportunities like that, it would be very difficult to find them 
>>>>otherwise. I can't imagine most rock climbing places letting 
>>>>blind people participate. Heck, one time I tried to sign up for a 
>>>>wood working class and they kicked me out when they found out I was blind.
>>>>
>>>>But if a person wants to work on his job and mobility skills, he 
>>>>shouldn't be forced to climb rocks. I wouldn't have a problem 
>>>>with state governments supporting recreational facilities for the 
>>>>blind. But if these centers are intended primarily as rehab 
>>>>centers, then they shouldn't be forcing people to climb rocks.
>>>>
>>>>---- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:17 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hello Jim and listers,
>>>>>
>>>>>    Okay let me take a stab at this one. I'll insert my comments following
>>>>>yours and will indicate them with the letter A. Here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>>Hello all!
>>>>>
>>>>>Do all NFB centers insist that clients rock climb?  I'm referring to the
>>>>>three NFB centers in Minnesota, Colorado, and Louisiana as well as centers
>>>>>which are a part of a state's rehab program as is the case in Iowa and
>>>>>Nebraska?
>>>>>
>>>>>A. Yes
>>>>>
>>>>>  Can a client be exempt from this exercise due to health, age or
>>>>>other complications?
>>>>>
>>>>>A.
>>>>>    Each case is considered on an individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>Have people been denied services from all of the above
>>>>>agencies if they refused to rock climb or they obtained a 
>>>>>doctor's statement
>>>>>that they shouldn't engage in such activity?
>>>>>
>>>>>A.
>>>>>    Recall the discussion of informed choice we've had from time-to-time.
>>>>>These centers have a set curriculum students are required to 
>>>>>take including
>>>>>participation in recreational activities such as rock climbing. Such
>>>>>exemptions could be viewed as attempts by center students to "Menuize" the
>>>>>training. They never realize the full benefit of the program if 
>>>>>they attempt
>>>>>to "Water down" these center curriculums by requesting 
>>>>>exemptions from this
>>>>>or that part of the training. Here again each case is considered on an
>>>>>individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>  What exempts people from this
>>>>>activity and if they are exempt, can they still receive services from our
>>>>>NFB agencies?
>>>>>
>>>>>    A.
>>>>>    Much of my answer can be found above but I'll add here that 
>>>>> if a student
>>>>>chooses not to participate in a class or activity all center students must
>>>>>attend or take part in they should reconsider their choice of orientation
>>>>>and adjustment center if they're unwilling to participate in the entire
>>>>>center curriculum.
>>>>>
>>>>>A friend of mine returned from one of these centers.  He has a badly
>>>>>sprained leg or he has pulled ligaments in his leg!  Needless to 
>>>>>say, he is
>>>>>out of the program or is immobile for an undetermined amount of time! This
>>>>>person was otherwise happy with the program and I commend this person for
>>>>>giving it a good try but I think there comes a time when a 
>>>>>person my age who
>>>>>is twice 30 shouldn't attempt such a thing!  If I were in my 20s 
>>>>>and 30s, I
>>>>>wouldn't question this but when one is in their late 40s and beyond, I'd
>>>>>question whether this is such a good idea!
>>>>>
>>>>>Any thoughts?A.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Our centers have had students in their 80s participate in 
>>>>> roc climbing,
>>>>>skydiving, and other high-impact activities. There are several accounts of
>>>>>blind senior citizens that attended our centers and participated in all
>>>>>aspects of their programs and had a darn good time doing so 
>>>>>published in The
>>>>>Braille Monitor. Your friend needs to not allow his accident prevent him
>>>>>from returning to the NFB center to finish his training. There 
>>>>>are numerous
>>>>>accounts of students who due to accident or illness were unable 
>>>>>to complete
>>>>>the initial part of their training but returned later to finish. 
>>>>>This should
>>>>>not be a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>    As far as doctors exemptions go remember that health care 
>>>>> professionals
>>>>>are influanced by the same prevailing attitudes and beliefs 
>>>>>about blindness
>>>>>and our capabilities as is the general public. It would be easy 
>>>>>for a doctor
>>>>>to "issue a letter requesting that a student not be required to 
>>>>>participate
>>>>>in this or that part of the center program due to these mistaken attitudes
>>>>>and beliefs about the blind. What happens if that same doctor is presented
>>>>>with a health report for a blind individual in their 80s wishing 
>>>>>to attend a
>>>>>sports camp where rock climbing is one of the activities offered and that
>>>>>patient chooses to participate in that activity. There's the possibility
>>>>>that the doctor may discourage this person from engaging in rock climbing
>>>>>even though the person is healthy. They can thank the patient 
>>>>>who mistakenly
>>>>>believed that older blind individuals shouldn't participate in this
>>>>>activity. Let me recommend that you take some rock climbing 
>>>>>lessons and then
>>>>>reread your post.
>>>>>
>>>>>    I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue for you. All the
>>>>>best.
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter Donahue