[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

qubit lauraeaves at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 22 23:14:45 UTC 2010


but they do get their marijuana, right? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives


Its ironic that here in California with the increased supplement for SSI
beneficiaries they are ineligible for Food Stamps.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives


> Oh all right:
>
> Social Security is slavery.  It's just that simple.  It forces a person
> without outside resources (and of course, you're not supposed to have any
> outside resources) to avail themselves of food stamps, subsidized housing,
> and a host of other socialized welfare programs just to survive in a
> meager existence well below the established poverty line.
>
> If you dare get even a minimum wage job, at least on my state, you run
> afoul of the earnings limit twice a year.  If you weren't blind, a minimum
> wage job would simply be "too much" income.  Loss of Social Security means
> you lose eligibility for a good number of those additional programs which
> make living on Social Security possible.  Could I, with an artificial
> meager income pay the rent on an apartment if the rent were not also
> artificially meager?  I live in downtown Portland, Oregon.  The rent in
> downtown Portland is four figures.
>
> Doubtless we all know the saying that if you give a man a fish, he eats
> for a day.  If you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.  Social
> Security is a fish, and a pretty small one at that.  It is a handout.
> Every single person reading this message knows that, and they know the
> consequences of employment where you make just a little too much, but not
> enough too much.
>
> And we know the reason why it exists.  Social Security is intended to be
> welfare for the poor cripples and handicapped people who are in such
> desperate need of charity they just cannot get from anyone but the
> Government.  We have to HELP them, because they obviously can't help
> themselves!  And moreover, while we won't admit this to ourselves, much
> less to them, we have to make sure that they keep needing us to HELP them,
> so we can continue to justify the existence of our jobs in the government.
>
> If that attitude doesn't offend you, then I don't know what I can say to
> you.  It sure offends me.  But that is exactly how the people who are
> responsible for these things think about us.  We aren't people to them, we
> are charity cases.
>
> I am not a charity case.  I don't want a handout.  Give me instead a hand
> up!  Don't hand me a fish so that I may eat.  Teach me how to fish so that
> I can sell them and buy steak!  (I don't much care for fish...)
>
> If the powers that be will not give me a hand up, then I will find others
> who will.  I will learn the skills, find the tools, master the techniques,
> and create my own opportunities for success.  I am blind, but that will
> not stop me.  I am proud to be a member of the National Federation of the
> Blind, and I am not content to be a second class citizen, sitting at home
> for fear that I might lose my "benefits" if I attempt to do more with my
> life.
>
> That's all that matters here.  My political ideology doesn't matter all
> that much for the purposes of the NFB, though I bet it doesn't take a
> rocket scientist to guess what it is.  *grin*
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:14:51PM -0500, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best way
>>for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a crime in
>>the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one can get.
>>Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate the eventual
>>fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and create something
>>better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We need to shut down SSI and
>>social security.  those things punish the blind for trying to work.  I
>>said it last night and I'll say it again.  IF a blind person tries to go
>>to work, they don't make enough money to live, and yet, too much money to
>>get needed help.  How do I know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due
>>respect, don't tell me I know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that
>>those who need help should not get it; but, can we not even be honest with
>>ourselves and each other about the fact that our current set up may not be
>>the best w
>>ay to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is that too much
>>to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no taking it back.
>>Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't even be honest with
>>ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>>Sincerely,
>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>
>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>
>>E-Mail:
>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>Skype:
>>barefootedray
>>
>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>
>>> Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense to
>>> me and it is something I try to do often.
>>> Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion is
>>> that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>> figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further believe
>>> we need to think about the cost of what we
>>> might request society and what the benefits are to us and to society.
>>> These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>> not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even what Ray
>>> is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>> overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a sense of
>>> entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>> to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are no
>>> longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>> large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as having
>>> a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>> other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To
>>> extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>> just a theory.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing
>>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
>>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too
>>>> many
>>>> people make up their minds and then start casting around for reasons to
>>>> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for disaster.
>>>> That's
>>>> how mistakes are made.
>>>
>>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of
>>>> calling
>>>> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
>>>> speech.
>>>> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just
>>>> because
>>>> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important is
>>>> that it
>>>> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each other
>>>> in a
>>>> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea wins.  Its
>>>> called the market place of ideas.
>>>
>>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to
>>>> their
>>>> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most people
>>>> to do.
>>>> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start casting
>>>> about
>>>> for information to support what they already believe.  And that is a
>>>> recipe
>>>> for wrongness.
>>>
>>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe,
>>>> you
>>>> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better
>>>> chess
>>>> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all of
>>>> my
>>>> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get a
>>>> realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my opponent's
>>>> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not see? Is
>>>> he
>>>> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my
>>>> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was like
>>>> magic.
>>>
>>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance of
>>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how
>>>> few
>>>> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
>>>> players.
>>>> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>
>>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political opinions,
>>>> take
>>>> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or not.
>>>> Do
>>>> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my beliefs?
>>>> Do I
>>>> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?  If
>>>> more
>>>> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world would
>>>> be a
>>>> better place.
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative
>>>> and
>>>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used to
>>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>
>>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger
>>>> and
>>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and
>>>> others
>>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
>>>> disintegrate
>>>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
>>>> Knock off
>>>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other
>>>> names and
>>>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is
>>>> to
>>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
>>>> Americans
>>>> should have.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike Hingson
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>
>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>
>>>> E-Mail:
>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>> Skype:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you
>>>>> refrain
>>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct
>>>> term is
>>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand
>>>>>> for
>>>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps
>>>> some
>>>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?  It's
>>>> the
>>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor
>>>> blind
>>>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many
>>>> of us,
>>>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us
>>>> don't
>>>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we
>>>> do,
>>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we
>>>> make
>>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.  What,
>>>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government
>>>> will
>>>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It
>>>>>> personally
>>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my
>>>> fellow
>>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That
>>>> turns my
>>>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation
>>>> fail to
>>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in
>>>> bed
>>>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely
>>>> hoping
>>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking book
>>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the
>>>> back
>>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however,
>>>> that
>>>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
>>>> personally
>>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>>>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the
>>>> fact
>>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have
>>>> to
>>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for
>>>> that
>>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
>>>> looked
>>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough.
>>>> What I
>>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
>>>> entitlement
>>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach
>>>>>>> out
>>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come
>>>> speak
>>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>> issues. We
>>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of
>>>> phone
>>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because,
>>>> "Obama
>>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We
>>>>>>> tried
>>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't
>>>> matter.
>>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option
>>>> was to
>>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It
>>>>>>> is
>>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome
>>>> on
>>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit
>>>> of
>>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a
>>>> more
>>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan
>>>>>>> to
>>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please
>>>> Email
>>>> me at
>>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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