[nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get labeled
Ray Foret Jr
rforetjr at comcast.net
Sat Apr 24 14:01:56 UTC 2010
Fair enough.
For one source, see, "The Man and the Movement". a search of:
www.nfb.org
should bring it up quite quickly.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
e-mail:
rforetjr at comcast dot net
skype:
barefootedray
On Apr 24, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Michael Hingson wrote:
> For grins, where did you find that speech? Let's read the whole speech
> before accepting one small quote. Taking quotes out of context is
> dangerous.
>
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:45 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get labeled
>
> In short, "We are willing to help you in distress, but not out of it.". I"m
> quoting here from the NFB 1952 banquet speech. So there. IF you need
> proof, there you go. Straight from the founder himself via a speech he made
> in 1952.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>
> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>
> e-mail:
> rforetjr at comcast dot net
> skype:
> barefootedray
>
> On Apr 24, 2010, at 2:25 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>
>> You just go and fill out your forms in triplicate, and wait thirty minutes
> for the next available Social Security representative. Remember though, you
> have the CHOICE to not wait to talk to them and instead go to their website,
> maybe.
>>
>> I've had enough begging for scraps. At least the charities give you the
> dignity of being a person worthy of what they provide, rather than an
> unwelcome burden to the system who deserves no better than they give you.
>>
>> For the record, SSI already has a gradual exchange of benefits for income
> for an amount that is higher than you will receive for SSI. It is SSDI that
> lacks this feature.
>>
>> What is truly needed is improvement in those efforts to help people in the
> unenviable position of being quite able to work, but trapped by
> circumstances (including those imposed by the myriad social support
> programs), to break free of the forced poverty they are subject to.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 06:30:06PM -0400, Wm. Ritchhart wrote:
>>> I think it is important to add to what John is saying as he is right on
>>> target. We all need to remember that before the NFB got the Congress to
>>> grant the blind Social Security, the responsibility fell to charities and
> to
>>> the families of the uneducated and unemployed blind. It did not work and
>>> that was why there were blind people begging in the streets.
>>>
>>> What is needed are methods that enable the ready for employment blind
> person
>>> to move from SSI to work without immediately losing all their SSI until
> they
>>> earn an amount that keeps them above the poverty level when the SSI is
>>> removed.
>>>
>>> The second item that is needed is the need to change the attitudes of the
>>> sighted people who hold the power to hire workers. These folks
> contribute
>>> more to the 70% unemployment rate than anything. As said already, until
> we
>>> solve this problem, everything else is secondary.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:53 AM
>>> To: qubit; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get
> labeled
>>>
>>> Well, trying to stay on topic here, there has been a suggestion that we'd
> be
>>>
>>> better off without SSI and presumably SSDI. Is it likely that a private
>>> charity could take the place of those programs? Not very. I can more or
> less
>>>
>>> prove that...
>>>
>>> The poverty level is currently around $15,000. But lets say the average
> SSI
>>> or SSDI recipient could get by with $10,000 a year. Now lets figure the
>>> average employed blind person makes $50,000 a year. That's probably way
> high
>>>
>>> too. Now lets say the average blind person with a job would be willing to
>>> contribute 1% of his income to a program to provide jobs for unemployed
>>> blind people. That's $500 per year. Would the average blind person be
>>> willing to pitch in $500 a year for his fellow blind citizens? I ckind of
>>> doubt it but lets say for the sake of argument that he would. 10000/500
> is
>>> 20. So that still means you'd have to have 20 employed blind people for
>>> every unemployed blind person. So the idea of employed blind people
>>> pitching in to support unemployed blind people doesn't even begin to work
>>> until the employment rate is 95%. If it was that high we wouldn't need
> the
>>> program in the first place.
>>>
>>> This is basically the same problem Social Security is facing -- too many
>>> recipients and too few contributors. The solution to the SSI problem is
>>> fairly clear. We will need to raise the age of eligibility and have a
> means
>>> test. But there is no way a program for employed blind people to fund a
> jobs
>>>
>>> program for unemployed blind people can ever work. The numbers just
> arent'
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Most of what the government does is the same. Its just not practical to
>>> think that the private sector can take over the functions of the federal
>>> government. that is a fantasy promoted by libertarians like Ron Paul.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get
> labeled
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi -- I may be venturing on thin ice here, but there is one thing I
> worry
>>>> about. This is not a material problem so much as a mental/spiritual
> one.
>>>> One drawback to government run programs that is more a subjective,
>>>> nonquantifiable one: If you give the government the full responsibility
>>>> for
>>>> taking care of the needy in the country, it has the effect of sweeping
>>>> problems under the rug of "the government is taking care of it" -- kind
> of
>>>> like the SEP invisibility field in the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy
>>>> books--adams fans will know what I'm talking about. SEP stands for
>>>> "someone
>>>> else's problem" and has such a powerful effect on viewers as to render
> an
>>>> object invisible.
>>>> I think that this change will attempt to take the responsibility of
>>>> looking
>>>> out for our neighbors and give it to the government so people will be
> less
>>>> apt to give in times of need. In particular, if taxes are high, they
> will
>>>> figure they already gave to that cause, and maybe try to give moral
>>>> support,
>>>> but if the government office isn't helping, the person is still in need
> of
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> friend or someone to identify the problem so as to get him to the right
>>>> government office. and there may not be someone there. You can't
> predefine
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> government office for every problem.
>>>> In the case of health care, there is also the question of privacy, if on
>>>> huge monolithic government run health agency pays the docs, then it will
>>>> be
>>>> easy for people's records to be available for others to view, at least
> for
>>>> government employees. And in a socialistic society, there are a lot of
>>>> government employees...*smile*
>>>>
>>>> I guess I am playing conservative today.
>>>> Obama's health plan, such as it is, does allow for private medical
>>>> insurers.
>>>> And I think government programs can be a very good thing for those who
>>>> need
>>>> them.
>>>> It's just that the change has me worried.
>>>> Take care.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get
>>>> labeled
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A lot of money gets wasted no matter who's running a program. What
> makes
>>>> you think a private charity is more efficient than the federal
> government?
>>>> You should check out the salaries made by the leaders of most
> non-profits.
>>>> It is not at all unusual for the President of a non-profit to make half
> a
>>>> million dollars a year. Not to mention the fact that most of our social
>>>> programs were created in the first place because private charities
> weren't
>>>> getting it done.
>>>>
>>>> Its simply a myth that governments can't solve social programs.
> Countries
>>>> like Switzerland and Sweeden have happy, healthy citizens. The USA, on
> the
>>>> other hand, ranks low on just about every measure of health and
> happiness.
>>>> Our infant mortality rate is high, our life expectancy is low, our
>>>> unemployment rate and crime rates are high.
>>>>
>>>> The available evidence would tend to indicate that the United States
>>>> doesn't
>>>> have enough social programs, not too many. Now, you could argue that a
>>>> reduced tax burden and less government interference makes it worthwhile.
>>>> But
>>>> that would be a value judgement. I mean, you could argue that our
>>>> independence is more valuable than living a longer life. But you can't
>>>> argue
>>>> that government can't solve social programs. There's just no evidence
> for
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Amelia Dickerson" <ameliadickerson at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "Nijat Worley" <nijat1989 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:25 PM
>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] blind and wanting to improve things, not get labeled
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello-
>>>>> I'm just going to put my two cents in here. I think that when the
>>>>> government does stuff, it ends up swallowing up a lot of money that is
>>>>> wasted. I have spent several months applying for jobs in the federal
>>>>> government and it has been a bit of a comic sketch. At the same time,
>>>>> we have people in our society for whom we need to care, and the fact
>>>>> is that any point in time, most people end up in that position.
>>>>> Ideally, we would privately take care of this on our own- people
>>>>> within a community would rise up and put together their own education
>>>>> system for their kids and for all of them, we would help people out
>>>>> with food when they needed it, doctors and therapists would take on a
>>>>> few patients and clients pro bono at any one time. But until people
>>>>> choose to do that over buying that brand new car instead of continuing
>>>>> to drive it even though it is no longer the latest and greatest, we
>>>>> need to have the government programs on which to fall back. That
>>>>> doesn't even address the fact that certain communities have a deficit
>>>>> of such resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> At my own church, I am in charge of organizing local community service
>>>>> activities. We have a solid core of people who give generously of
>>>>> their time and energy and money, but there are others who are very
>>>>> much occupied by the things in their own lives and they just don't
>>>>> really contribute to anything. Fortunately, most will give to others
>>>>> in some form, but there are a lot of causes and people out there to
>>>>> give to. I am personally in my mid 20's and my peers are a notoriously
>>>>> self-centered population. I know some people who meet that discription
>>>>> and others who do not. Honestly, I don't know what you would need to
>>>>> do in order to try and meet the needs of others. However, as a person
>>>>> with my masters in counseling and with a lot of personal experience
>>>>> working with people who are needy in both an emotional and physical
>>>>> sense, itt is absolutely not as easy as giving them money for food
>>>>> each month. Talk to me one on one if you want to know what it looks
>>>>> like to try and quote unquote "help" someone with schizofrenia or a
>>>>> personality disorder.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I am currently taking a class on universal media design
>>>>> at the local state university. The principles of the class have to do
>>>>> with making media and web sites accessible to everyone, whether they
>>>>> are using an old computer on a dial up connection, using a smart
>>>>> phone, the latest and greatest computer with whatever internet
>>>>> browser, they are hard of hearing, or a use a screen reader. Despite
>>>>> its principles though, I have had to do a lot of self advocacy. They
>>>>> have us learning about java script from on-line clips that do not
>>>>> provide enough information for me to keep track of what is happening
>>>>> in the visual part of the training. Someone asked me to give feedback
>>>>> on the web site for the business association of downtown Denver in
>>>>> preparation for the AHEAD conference here this summer. It is all in
>>>>> flash, and I was unable to get any content off of it. The business
>>>>> association doesn't feel particularly obliged to change their web site
>>>>> at all, even if it also means that people out for the night cannot
>>>>> pull up their site on a smart phone. The conservative principle is
>>>>> that economic forces will convince them to change it, but they aare
>>>>> not yet terribly interested. Along the same lines, the web sites at CU
>>>>> are often times poorly designed to the extent of decreasing
>>>>> accessibility, but as a whole group of sites are looking at being
>>>>> redesigned in the next couple of years, the man in charge of it
>>>>> doesn't know the first thing about concepts such as the W3 standards.
>>>>> I met with him and showed him a bit about what makes his current site
>>>>> that he manages difficult to navigate with a screen reader. Maybe he
>>>>> will be motivated to learn more, butthus far people outside of
>>>>> disability services at the university have been pretty apathetic with
>>>>> regards to making accessibility improvements to sites. All of this is
>>>>> just to say that I don't tend to find that the best ideas win out; too
>>>>> many people are caught up in the concept of how things have always
>>>>> been done and "it works for me, so it's fine."
>>>>>
>>>>> With all of this having been said, I vote we stick with putting
>>>>> concepts out there without needing to label them as being part of one
>>>>> group or another. I am all for innovation, change, and progress. No
>>>>> political group gets to lay claim to those words and my use of them
>>>>> does not put me in any one group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amelia
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Amelia Dickerson
>>>>>
>>>>> What counts can't always be counted, and what can be counted doesn't
>>>>> always count.
>>>>> Albert Einstein
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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