[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

T. Joseph Carter carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
Sun Apr 25 00:44:49 UTC 2010 

I support legalization.  If the potheads are all too stoned to be out 
there trying to promote the crashing of the system and anarchy for 
all, I'll be able to sleep in on Saturday mornings.  They were out 
there far too early this morning marching and shouting about who 
knows what.

Ahh Portland.  It reminds me of Eugene, only with less tear gas.

Incidentally, living in a city where such loosely organized displays 
of civil unrest are fairly common, particularly in my neighborhood, I 
find there are certain additional safe travel barriers during such a 
display.

A few weeks ago, Jesse Jackson was in town and promised there would 
be a riot over a couple of police actions, including the shooting of 
a man lunging forward, knife in hand, covered in blood.  And sure 
enough, there were riots, people vandalizing cars, smashing building 
windows, etc.  When the brainless are out in force, traffic and other 
noises can make it hard to tell where these people are.  As they are 
doing violence, you don't want to accidentally walk into a crowd of 
them.

I had to go out into that, but was able to mostly avoid the trouble 
because the police were describing crowds (more than one) over the 
scanner.  The problem was, it was pretty clear that people in those 
crowds were listening and giving instructions based on what they 
heard.

What possessed me to move TO the city again, particularly one 
renowned for its counter-culture?

Joseph


On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 06:42:50AM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>especially now that the most recent poll for the ballot initiative in 
>November says that 56% of the voters support legalization.
>Chuck
>----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:14 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>>but they do get their marijuana, right? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
>>--le
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:58 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>Its ironic that here in California with the increased supplement for SSI
>>beneficiaries they are ineligible for Food Stamps.
>>Chuck
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:54 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>>Oh all right:
>>>
>>>Social Security is slavery.  It's just that simple.  It forces a person
>>>without outside resources (and of course, you're not supposed to have any
>>>outside resources) to avail themselves of food stamps, subsidized 
>>>housing,
>>>and a host of other socialized welfare programs just to survive in a
>>>meager existence well below the established poverty line.
>>>
>>>If you dare get even a minimum wage job, at least on my state, you run
>>>afoul of the earnings limit twice a year.  If you weren't blind, 
>>>a minimum
>>>wage job would simply be "too much" income.  Loss of Social 
>>>Security means
>>>you lose eligibility for a good number of those additional programs which
>>>make living on Social Security possible.  Could I, with an artificial
>>>meager income pay the rent on an apartment if the rent were not also
>>>artificially meager?  I live in downtown Portland, Oregon.  The rent in
>>>downtown Portland is four figures.
>>>
>>>Doubtless we all know the saying that if you give a man a fish, he eats
>>>for a day.  If you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.  Social
>>>Security is a fish, and a pretty small one at that.  It is a handout.
>>>Every single person reading this message knows that, and they know the
>>>consequences of employment where you make just a little too much, but not
>>>enough too much.
>>>
>>>And we know the reason why it exists.  Social Security is intended to be
>>>welfare for the poor cripples and handicapped people who are in such
>>>desperate need of charity they just cannot get from anyone but the
>>>Government.  We have to HELP them, because they obviously can't help
>>>themselves!  And moreover, while we won't admit this to ourselves, much
>>>less to them, we have to make sure that they keep needing us to 
>>>HELP them,
>>>so we can continue to justify the existence of our jobs in the 
>>>government.
>>>
>>>If that attitude doesn't offend you, then I don't know what I can say to
>>>you.  It sure offends me.  But that is exactly how the people who are
>>>responsible for these things think about us.  We aren't people to 
>>>them, we
>>>are charity cases.
>>>
>>>I am not a charity case.  I don't want a handout.  Give me instead a hand
>>>up!  Don't hand me a fish so that I may eat.  Teach me how to 
>>>fish so that
>>>I can sell them and buy steak!  (I don't much care for fish...)
>>>
>>>If the powers that be will not give me a hand up, then I will find others
>>>who will.  I will learn the skills, find the tools, master the 
>>>techniques,
>>>and create my own opportunities for success.  I am blind, but that will
>>>not stop me.  I am proud to be a member of the National Federation of the
>>>Blind, and I am not content to be a second class citizen, sitting at home
>>>for fear that I might lose my "benefits" if I attempt to do more with my
>>>life.
>>>
>>>That's all that matters here.  My political ideology doesn't matter all
>>>that much for the purposes of the NFB, though I bet it doesn't take a
>>>rocket scientist to guess what it is.  *grin*
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:14:51PM -0500, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best way
>>>>for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a crime in
>>>>the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one can get.
>>>>Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate the eventual
>>>>fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and create something
>>>>better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We need to shut 
>>>>down SSI and
>>>>social security.  those things punish the blind for trying to work.  I
>>>>said it last night and I'll say it again.  IF a blind person tries to go
>>>>to work, they don't make enough money to live, and yet, too much money to
>>>>get needed help.  How do I know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due
>>>>respect, don't tell me I know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that
>>>>those who need help should not get it; but, can we not even be 
>>>>honest with
>>>>ourselves and each other about the fact that our current set up 
>>>>may not be
>>>>the best w
>>>>ay to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is 
>>>>that too much
>>>>to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no 
>>>>taking it back.
>>>>Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't even be honest with
>>>>ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>Skype:
>>>>barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense to
>>>>>me and it is something I try to do often.
>>>>>Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion is
>>>>>that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>>>>figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further believe
>>>>>we need to think about the cost of what we
>>>>>might request society and what the benefits are to us and to society.
>>>>>These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>>>>not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is 
>>>>>even what Ray
>>>>>is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>>>>overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to 
>>>>>a sense of
>>>>>entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>>>>to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are no
>>>>>longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>>>>large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as having
>>>>>a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>>>>other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To
>>>>>extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>>>>just a theory.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing
>>>>>>liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
>>>>>>occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too
>>>>>>many
>>>>>>people make up their minds and then start casting around 
>>>>>>for reasons to
>>>>>>believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for disaster.
>>>>>>That's
>>>>>>how mistakes are made.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of
>>>>>>calling
>>>>>>it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
>>>>>>speech.
>>>>>>And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just
>>>>>>because
>>>>>>we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important is
>>>>>>that it
>>>>>>allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each other
>>>>>>in a
>>>>>>society with free speech and most of the time, the best 
>>>>>>idea wins. Its
>>>>>>called the market place of ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>>>But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to
>>>>>>their
>>>>>>own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most people
>>>>>>to do.
>>>>>>Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start casting
>>>>>>about
>>>>>>for information to support what they already believe.  And that is a
>>>>>>recipe
>>>>>>for wrongness.
>>>>>
>>>>>>If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe,
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better
>>>>>>chess
>>>>>>player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all of
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get a
>>>>>>realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are 
>>>>>>my opponent's
>>>>>>strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might 
>>>>>>not see? Is
>>>>>>he
>>>>>>missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my
>>>>>>opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was like
>>>>>>magic.
>>>>>
>>>>>>The real message in the chess tournament story is not the 
>>>>>>importance of
>>>>>>trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how
>>>>>>few
>>>>>>people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
>>>>>>players.
>>>>>>Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>>>>everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your 
>>>>>>political opinions,
>>>>>>take
>>>>>>a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or not.
>>>>>>Do
>>>>>>they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my beliefs?
>>>>>>Do I
>>>>>>believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?  If
>>>>>>more
>>>>>>people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world would
>>>>>>be a
>>>>>>better place.
>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>>Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>"right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have 
>>>>>>been used to
>>>>>>inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>>>
>>>>>>In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and
>>>>>>others
>>>>>>survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>>>>>>potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
>>>>>>disintegrate
>>>>>>along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
>>>>>>Knock off
>>>>>>the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other
>>>>>>names and
>>>>>>recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
>>>>>>Americans
>>>>>>should have.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>>>"Speaking with Vision"
>>>>>>Michael Hingson, President
>>>>>>(415) 827-4084
>>>>>>info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>>>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>On
>>>>>>Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>Skype:
>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you
>>>>>>>refrain
>>>>>>from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct
>>>>>>term is
>>>>>>"liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
>>>>>>><rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>RyanO,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps
>>>>>>some
>>>>>>risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>>>>>>federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  
>>>>>>But why? It's
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor
>>>>>>blind
>>>>>>think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many
>>>>>>of us,
>>>>>>that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we
>>>>>>do,
>>>>>>we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we
>>>>>>make
>>>>>>too much to receive any help from the socialist security 
>>>>>>system. What,
>>>>>>there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>>>>>>individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government
>>>>>>will
>>>>>>"look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>>>>>>really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>>>>t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It
>>>>>>>>personally
>>>>>>hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>>>>>Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>>>>>dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my
>>>>>>fellow
>>>>>>conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>>>>>>political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That
>>>>>>turns my
>>>>>>stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation
>>>>>>fail to
>>>>>>reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in
>>>>>>bed
>>>>>>with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely
>>>>>>hoping
>>>>>>that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital 
>>>>>>talking book
>>>>>>program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the
>>>>>>back
>>>>>>of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however,
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
>>>>>>personally
>>>>>>couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>>>>al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>>>>>>extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the
>>>>>>fact
>>>>>>that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
>>>>>>looked
>>>>>>after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough.
>>>>>>What I
>>>>>>look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>>>>>>rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
>>>>>>entitlement
>>>>>>mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>Skype:
>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>>>><dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach
>>>>>>>>>out
>>>>>>to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come
>>>>>>speak
>>>>>>at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>>>>issues. We
>>>>>>already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>>>>>>members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of
>>>>>>phone
>>>>>>tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>>>>representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because,
>>>>>>"Obama
>>>>>>was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We
>>>>>>>>>tried
>>>>>>to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't
>>>>>>matter.
>>>>>>To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>>>>>>conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option
>>>>>>was to
>>>>>>get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>>>>>>Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It
>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>>>>>communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome
>>>>>>on
>>>>>>this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a
>>>>>>more
>>>>>>vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please
>>>>>>Email
>>>>>>me at
>>>>>>>>>ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>RyanO
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nfb-talk mailing list
>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org

More information about the nFB-Talk mailing list