[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
John G. Heim
jheim at math.wisc.edu
Mon Apr 26 21:56:22 UTC 2010
Sorry. Ray says he's "constantly barefooted" so I just assumed that meant he
is independently wealthy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> As a matter of fact, I know Ray well enough to know that if he had enough
> financial resources, he would contribute to this fund. Now you're making
> assumptions about a person you don't even know, assumptions without any
> basis in fact.
> Sarah
> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this
> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and
> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>> Ray suggested that employed blind people start a fund to get unemployed
>> blind people off SSI. But I think that if Ray had to contribute to this
>> fund of his, he'd look at it a little differently. I don't think he'd
>> think it was such a good idea if he had to put his own money into it.
>>
>> In my opinion, its irresponsible to volunteer someone else to solve a
>> problem and not in keeping with the conservative spirit. Besides, Ray
>> has time, doesn't he? There's more to organizing a program to get people
>> off SSI than contributing money. He could contribute his time.
>>
>> There are plenty of NGOs out there dedicated to helping blind people find
>> and keep jobs that could use some volunteer time. Heck, I run one myself.
>> When I saw the need for an association of blind technologists, I didn't
>> say someone should start something like that. No, I went out and started
>> it.
>>
>> PS: I haven't attacked anybody. You conservatives all seem to have these
>> firmly held opinions and seem to have no problem expressing them in the
>> most blunt terms. But if anybody should challenge those opinions, you
>> think its an attack. Well, its not.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>> Because right now, speaking as his girlfriend, he doesn't have the
>>> resources. Sorry babe, but these attacks on you are irking me.
>>> Sarah
>>> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this
>>> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and
>>> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>
>>>> First of all, I didn't misrepresent anything. I responded to what you
>>>> said. If you meant that SSI should be eliminated only after other
>>>> programs were in place, you should have said that. Don't blame me for
>>>> your own lack of clarity.
>>>>
>>>> As far as your plan goes, I say go ahead. Get started. Why don't you,
>>>> Ray Ford, get someone off SSI by paying them to work for you? Or maybe
>>>> you could set them up in a business of their own. What's stopping you?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In an effort to meet you half way, I want to reiterate something.
>>>>> Yes, I said we need to eliminate SSI and social security. But, and
>>>>> this is very important, not before we have other systems in place.
>>>>> Let me repeat myself. Just because I said that does not mean that I
>>>>> believe that we should not help those who truly need it. This has
>>>>> been how we are misrepresented in the press ETC. Okay. I'll take one
>>>>> thing you said and actually agree with you; rare but true. YOu said,
>>>>> "Let's see the conservatives come up with some ideas". Fair enough.
>>>>> My own idea would be the establishment of a finatial pool from which
>>>>> money could be drawn to help the truly needy. Where would this money
>>>>> come from? The blind who are not on SSI or social security would
>>>>> contribute to this fund; which, would perhaps be held in trust by the
>>>>> NFB. This would take some time; but, as funds accumulated, you would
>>>>> begin to be able to slowly draw off blind people from SSI by providing
>>>>> them jobs through direct
>>>>> networking. It would have to start with one blind person who is no
>>>>> longer on SSI or social security willing to jump start the process.
>>>>> From there, it would move to the first person being helped. That
>>>>> person would then be able, through the efforts of the first, to obtain
>>>>> a secure position and then, when he himself is secure, help the third.
>>>>> Okay, it's not perfect; but, it's a start isn't it? Seems our only
>>>>> other choice is a most unpleasant one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>> skype:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:46 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it would probably be worthwhile to discuss whether SSI and SSDI
>>>>>> represent needs or wants just to get that out of the way. But I don't
>>>>>> see how anyone could say these programs are not needed. I'd like to
>>>>>> see conservatives come up with some alternatives. Would they rather
>>>>>> have blind people begging in the streets? It seems to me that
>>>>>> conservatives want to roll the clock back to the bad old days when
>>>>>> blind people sold pencils on the street corner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson"
>>>>>> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:50 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense
>>>>>>> to me and it is something I try to do often.
>>>>>>> Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion
>>>>>>> is that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>>>>>> figure out what we need as opposed to what we want. I further
>>>>>>> believe we need to think about the cost of what we
>>>>>>> might request society and what the benefits are to us and to
>>>>>>> society. These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>>>>>> not be seen as conservative or liberal. Still, if this is even what
>>>>>>> Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>>>>>> overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a
>>>>>>> sense of entitlement. As we make progress, we do need
>>>>>>> to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are
>>>>>>> no longer needed. However, we have some pretty
>>>>>>> large obstacles to overcome before we get there. Labeling us as
>>>>>>> having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>>>>>> other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality. To
>>>>>>> extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>>>>>> just a theory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in
>>>>>>>> discussing
>>>>>>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
>>>>>>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far
>>>>>>>> too many
>>>>>>>> people make up their minds and then start casting around for
>>>>>>>> reasons to
>>>>>>>> believe what they've already decided. That's a recipe for
>>>>>>>> disaster. That's
>>>>>>>> how mistakes are made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of
>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
>>>>>>>> speech.
>>>>>>>> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important
>>>>>>>> is that it
>>>>>>>> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each
>>>>>>>> other in a
>>>>>>>> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea wins.
>>>>>>>> Its
>>>>>>>> called the market place of ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas
>>>>>>>> to their
>>>>>>>> own opinions. Its just not even something that occurs to most
>>>>>>>> people to do.
>>>>>>>> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start
>>>>>>>> casting about
>>>>>>>> for information to support what they already believe. And that is
>>>>>>>> a recipe
>>>>>>>> for wrongness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you
>>>>>>>> believe, you
>>>>>>>> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better
>>>>>>>> chess
>>>>>>>> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all
>>>>>>>> of my
>>>>>>>> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my
>>>>>>>> opponent's
>>>>>>>> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not
>>>>>>>> see? Is he
>>>>>>>> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my
>>>>>>>> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was
>>>>>>>> like magic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the
>>>>>>>> importance of
>>>>>>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is
>>>>>>>> how few
>>>>>>>> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
>>>>>>>> players.
>>>>>>>> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>>>>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political
>>>>>>>> opinions, take
>>>>>>>> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or
>>>>>>>> not. Do
>>>>>>>> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my
>>>>>>>> beliefs? Do I
>>>>>>>> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?
>>>>>>>> If more
>>>>>>>> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world
>>>>>>>> would be a
>>>>>>>> better place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hingson"
>>>>>>>> <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as
>>>>>>>> conservative and
>>>>>>>> "right wing" are words. The fact is that these words have been
>>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into
>>>>>>>> anger and
>>>>>>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before. I and
>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
>>>>>>>> disintegrate
>>>>>>>> along party lines. Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
>>>>>>>> Knock off
>>>>>>>> the words and find ways to come together. Stop calling each other
>>>>>>>> names and
>>>>>>>> recognize that we all have a job to do. In the case of the NFB it
>>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
>>>>>>>> Americans
>>>>>>>> should have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Hingson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>>>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>>>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>>>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just being honest. That's all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you
>>>>>>>>> refrain
>>>>>>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct
>>>>>>>> term is
>>>>>>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
>>>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue
>>>>>>>>>> stand for
>>>>>>>> us blind conservatives. Let me be completely frank here, at
>>>>>>>> perhaps some
>>>>>>>> risk to myself. For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left. But why?
>>>>>>>> It's the
>>>>>>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly. We poor
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> think we can't live without it. But, the sad truth is, that for
>>>>>>>> many of us,
>>>>>>>> that think is a physical reality. That is the reason why more of
>>>>>>>> us don't
>>>>>>>> have jobs. We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When
>>>>>>>> we do,
>>>>>>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand,
>>>>>>>> we make
>>>>>>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.
>>>>>>>> What,
>>>>>>>> there fore, is the sad result? The sad result is that too many
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that
>>>>>>>> government will
>>>>>>>> "look after us". IF you just stop and consider for a moment what
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism. It
>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>>>>>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>>>>>>> dismantle blind rehab. Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my
>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score. They seem to
>>>>>>>> hate
>>>>>>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind. That
>>>>>>>> turns my
>>>>>>>> stomach!!!! It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the
>>>>>>>> federation fail to
>>>>>>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being
>>>>>>>> in bed
>>>>>>>> with the socialist left. To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely
>>>>>>>> hoping
>>>>>>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking
>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride
>>>>>>>> the back
>>>>>>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems,
>>>>>>>> however, that
>>>>>>>> this is not so. Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist,
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> extreme right wing person or what ever. What I do care about is
>>>>>>>> the fact
>>>>>>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be
>>>>>>>> enough. What I
>>>>>>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
>>>>>>>> entitlement
>>>>>>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to
>>>>>>>>>>> reach out
>>>>>>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to
>>>>>>>> come speak
>>>>>>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>>>>>> issues. We
>>>>>>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of
>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>>>>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because,
>>>>>>>> "Obama
>>>>>>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt.
>>>>>>>>>>> We tried
>>>>>>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we
>>>>>>>> didn't matter.
>>>>>>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second
>>>>>>>> option was to
>>>>>>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all
>>>>>>>> levels.
>>>>>>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>>>>>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is
>>>>>>>> welcome on
>>>>>>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the
>>>>>>>> spirit of
>>>>>>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion
>>>>>>>> fosters a more
>>>>>>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I
>>>>>>>>>>> plan to
>>>>>>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information,
>>>>>>>> please Email
>>>>>>>> me at
>>>>>>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
More information about the nFB-Talk
mailing list