[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Tue Apr 27 06:18:48 UTC 2010 

   Why are religious beliefs relevant to the purpose of this list? I for one 
am not subscribed to deal with religious issues here as I believe that this 
is a personal choice and should be dealt with personally.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives


> Actually, they are.  The liberal mentality of the left (liberals) directly 
> contradict the teachings of the Church, regardless of whether or not most 
> catholics agree with the liberal mentality.
> Sarah
> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this 
> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and 
> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>> Sarah, of course opinions are either right or wrong. How can it be 
>> otherwise? If Ray says we'd be better off without SSI and I say we 
>> wouldn't, then one of us has to be wrong.
>>
>> What you mean is that neither of us can prove the other wrong. Well, 
>> actually, I donn't think even that is correct. But even if it is, that 
>> doesn't mean that one of us isn't wrong.
>>
>> PS: You sound like you think liberal and Catholic are distinct groups. In 
>> fact, I would be willing to bet that the majority of Catholics would 
>> agree with me, not Ray.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>> John, the terms right and wrong are subjective.  Everyone has a 
>>> different version of what is right and what is wrong, especially when it 
>>> comes to political and religious beliefs.  Being a Catholic, I agree 
>>> with all of what Ray is saying because he is saying these things from 
>>> the perspective of a blind catholic, with the insight of the teachings 
>>> of the Church. However, a liberal does not believe in these things, and 
>>> so their version of what is right does not coincide with ours.  So you 
>>> see, you are doing no better than he is when you call what others 
>>> believe wrong.  You may think they're wrong, but I think those words can 
>>> only be used when you're talking about proven facts that can not be 
>>> denied.
>>> Sarah
>>> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this 
>>> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and 
>>> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: <info at michaelhingson.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
>>> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>
>>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing 
>>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should 
>>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too 
>>>> many people make up their minds and then start casting around for 
>>>> reasons to believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for 
>>>> disaster. That's how mistakes are made.
>>>>
>>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of 
>>>> calling it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom 
>>>> of speech. And most people even understand why its so important. Its 
>>>> not just because we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is 
>>>> so important is that it allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can 
>>>> compete against each other in a society with free speech and most of 
>>>> the time, the best idea wins. Its called the market place of ideas.
>>>>
>>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to 
>>>> their own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most 
>>>> people to do. Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then 
>>>> start casting about for information to support what they already 
>>>> believe. And that is a recipe for wrongness.
>>>>
>>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe, 
>>>> you will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better 
>>>> chess player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost 
>>>> all of my matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying 
>>>> to get a realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my 
>>>> opponent's strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might 
>>>> not see? Is he missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's 
>>>> going on in my opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. 
>>>> It was like magic.
>>>>
>>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance of 
>>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how 
>>>> few people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess 
>>>> players. Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>>
>>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it 
>>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political opinions, 
>>>> take a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or 
>>>> not. Do they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my 
>>>> beliefs? Do I believe what I believe because I want to or because of 
>>>> the facts?  If more people did this, they'd be right a lot more often 
>>>> and the world would be a better place.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative 
>>>> and
>>>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used to
>>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>>
>>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger 
>>>> and
>>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and 
>>>> others
>>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve 
>>>> disintegrate
>>>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings. 
>>>> Knock off
>>>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other 
>>>> names and
>>>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is 
>>>> to
>>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind 
>>>> Americans
>>>> should have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike Hingson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> E-Mail:
>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>> Skype:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you 
>>>>> refrain
>>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct 
>>>> term is
>>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" 
>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand 
>>>>>> for
>>>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps 
>>>> some
>>>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?  It's 
>>>> the
>>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor 
>>>> blind
>>>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many 
>>>> of us,
>>>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us 
>>>> don't
>>>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we 
>>>> do,
>>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we 
>>>> make
>>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.  What,
>>>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government 
>>>> will
>>>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It 
>>>>>> personally
>>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my 
>>>> fellow
>>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That 
>>>> turns my
>>>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation 
>>>> fail to
>>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in 
>>>> bed
>>>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely 
>>>> hoping
>>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking book
>>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the 
>>>> back
>>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however, 
>>>> that
>>>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I 
>>>> personally
>>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>>>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the 
>>>> fact
>>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have 
>>>> to
>>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for 
>>>> that
>>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being 
>>>> looked
>>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough. 
>>>> What I
>>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the 
>>>> entitlement
>>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach 
>>>>>>> out
>>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come 
>>>> speak
>>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability 
>>>> issues. We
>>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of 
>>>> phone
>>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because, 
>>>> "Obama
>>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We 
>>>>>>> tried
>>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't 
>>>> matter.
>>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option 
>>>> was to
>>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It 
>>>>>>> is
>>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome 
>>>> on
>>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit 
>>>> of
>>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a 
>>>> more
>>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan 
>>>>>>> to
>>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please 
>>>> Email
>>>> me at
>>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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