[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Thu Apr 29 01:57:21 UTC 2010


Laura:

I am sorry, but I don't think John is "bashing" anyone.  As he will 
attest to, I have jumped on him a time or three (smile) but I think 
he isn't bashing anyone here in this instance.  He is vigorously 
defending his point of view, but he isn't calling anyone names, 
making personal attacks etc.

Dave

At 07:22 PM 4/28/2010, you wrote:
>Said like a certain former governor of Illinois.(denial, denial, denial)
>You bash every other sentence, John..
>Read your lips.  Your tone is wall-to-wall flaming and beligerance.
>Ok, you say the International Association of
> > Visually Impaired Technologists  is something created by the people you
> > are bashing? If this is true, then I will research it more. If not, you
> > have neither the knowledge or right to bash people over the way they spend
> > their contributions and their time. I thought perhaps this organization,
> > which I have never heard of until this thread, was something out of the
> > ACB. Nothing wrong with that, especially if they do good work.
>
>Now, lest I start sounding like you, I will suggest in calm, nurturing tones
>that you take a communications course to turn your aggressive behavior into
>assertive.   If you think you are going to prove anything or persuade people
>to join your cause, you are wrong unless you cut out the bashing.
>Now I hope that sounded as condescending as you treat the people on list,
>only without flame.
>--le
>--le
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 12:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>Dude... These people invented this program. It isn't the slightest bit
>unreasonable for me to expect them to help out with it. It's *their* idea!
>
>The truth is that you're making my point for me. If even the people who came
>up with an idea don't have the time or energy to implement it, who does? It
>just goes to show how unrealistic the idea is. And this is a key point.
>Conservatives would like to think that volunteers and donations  could fill
>the roles currently provided by various government agencies. If you're
>telling me its unfair for me to ask blind people to provide the sweat it
>takes to implement a program they themselves invented, then that drags down
>another one of the pillars of conservative thinking.
>
>Get it? Don't you see that if you tell me its unfair for me to ask these
>people to volunteer their time and money, then you've contradicted one of
>the cornerstones of the conservative point of view?
>
>PS: Knock off the "bashing" and "not listening" crap. I haven't bashed
>anyone. And I'm doing just as good of a job of listening as anyone else
>around here if not better.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:20 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
> > John, you mentioned in one of your emails Satyagraha.  Well, everyone
> > likes
> > Gandhi.  He was a great figure.  Another great leader, whose name is so
> > obvious as to not need spelling out, recommended giving, and doing so in
> > private as well as public.
> > What I'm saying is that whatever your background, you haven't the
> > slightest
> > idea what people give to, public or private.
> > You have picked a single organization that you are bashing people for not
> > being involved -- at least not obviously.  I think if you give to this
> > organization, then great, but there are a million other ways to improve
> > the
> > community besides this one organization.
> > So lay off the bashing and listen for a while.
> > You can't hear when your mouth is open.
> > --le
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >
> >
> > I'm not saying you folks aren't being honest. I think you honestly believe
> > you'd donate to this fund if you could. But things look different when you
> > actually have to contribute. When I was in college, I thought
> > conservatives
> > were just a bunch of cheap old codgers who didn't like paying taxes. Then
> > i
> > got a job and had to start paying taxes myself. One year, my property
> > taxes
> > went up by almost exactly the same amount as my raise. I netted a $24
> > increase in income that year. I found myself complaining about taxes like
> > one of those cheap old codgers.
> >
> > I still think you people would look at this whole fund idea totally
> > differently if you actually were in a position to contribute. If you can't
> > donate money, what are you willing to donate? How about time? Surely you
> > have time. Why don't you put your time where your mouth is and get started
> > on this fund idea? I made a totally serious offer regarding a way you can
> > get started. Start lining up pledges to the International Association of
> > Visually Impaired Technologists and we'll hire someone of your choice
> > (assuming they are qualified) to maintain our web site.
> >
> > Heck, if you don't trust me, that's fine. I'm sure the NFB would accept
> > donations with the stipulation that they be used to hire someone currently
> > on SSI or SSDI. Get going lineing up donations for the cause.
> >
> > I've given you a perfectly reasonable way to prove that you're not all hat
> > and no cattle.  In my opinion, this is whats wrong with the conservative
> > movement today -- its nothing more than a lot of people standing around
> > complaining. Well, what are you going to do about it?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >
> >
> >>I would contribute to such a fund, anything that I could.  But then, I
> >>know
> >>where this Social Security thing is going, and a lot of blind people are
> >>going to be in a world of hurt when it gets there, as I have said
> >>elsewhere.
> >>
> >> (So wish me success, I'm hunting for new employment!)
> >>
> >> Joseph
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:15:15PM -0700, Sarah Baughn wrote:
> >>>As a matter of fact, I know Ray well enough to know that if he had enough
> >>>financial resources, he would contribute to this fund.  Now you're making
> >>>assumptions about a person you don't even know, assumptions without any
> >>>basis in fact.
> >>>Sarah
> >>>If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this
> >>>mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and
> >>>nothing shall be impossible unto you.
> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> >>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:31 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Ray suggested that employed blind people start a fund to get unemployed
> >>>>blind people off SSI. But I think that if Ray had to contribute to this
> >>>>fund of his, he'd look at it a little differently. I don't think he'd
> >>>>think it was such a good idea if he had to put his own money into it.
> >>>>
> >>>>In my opinion, its irresponsible to volunteer someone else to solve a
> >>>>problem and not in keeping with the conservative spirit.  Besides, Ray
> >>>>has time, doesn't he? There's more to organizing a program to get people
> >>>>off SSI than contributing money. He could contribute his time.
> >>>>
> >>>>There are plenty of NGOs out there dedicated to helping blind people
> >>>>find
> >>>>and keep jobs that could use some volunteer time. Heck, I run one
> >>>>myself.
> >>>>When I saw the need for an association of blind technologists, I didn't
> >>>>say someone should start something like that. No, I went out and started
> >>>>it.
> >>>>
> >>>>PS: I haven't attacked anybody. You conservatives all seem to have these
> >>>>firmly held opinions and seem to have no problem expressing them in the
> >>>>most blunt terms. But if anybody should challenge those opinions, you
> >>>>think its an attack.  Well, its not.
> >>>>
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Baughn"
> >>>><sarahb006 at comcast.net>
> >>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:18 AM
> >>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Because right now, speaking as his girlfriend, he doesn't have the
> >>>>>resources.  Sorry babe, but these attacks on you are irking me.
> >>>>>Sarah
> >>>>>If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this
> >>>>>mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and
> >>>>>nothing shall be impossible unto you.
> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> >>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:57 AM
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>First of all, I didn't misrepresent anything. I responded to what you
> >>>>>>said. If you meant that SSI should be eliminated only after other
> >>>>>>programs were in place, you should have said that. Don't blame me for
> >>>>>>your own lack of clarity.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>As far as your plan goes, I say go ahead. Get started. Why don't you,
> >>>>>>Ray Ford, get someone off SSI by paying them to work for you? Or maybe
> >>>>>>you could set them up in a business of their own. What's stopping you?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
> >>>>>><rforetjr at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:14 AM
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In an effort to meet you half way, I want to reiterate something.
> >>>>>>>Yes, I said we need to eliminate SSI and social security.  But, and
> >>>>>>>this is very important, not before we have other systems in place.
> >>>>>>>Let me repeat myself.  Just because I said that does not mean that I
> >>>>>>>believe that we should not help those who truly need it.  This has
> >>>>>>>been how we are misrepresented in the press ETC.  Okay.  I'll take
> >>>>>>>one
> >>>>>>>thing you said and actually agree with you; rare but true.  YOu said,
> >>>>>>>"Let's see the conservatives come up with some ideas".  Fair enough.
> >>>>>>>My own idea would be the establishment of a finatial pool from which
> >>>>>>>money could be drawn to help the truly needy.  Where would this money
> >>>>>>>come from?  The blind who are not on SSI or social security would
> >>>>>>>contribute to this fund; which, would perhaps be held in trust by the
> >>>>>>>NFB.  This would take some time; but, as funds accumulated, you would
> >>>>>>>begin to be able to slowly draw off blind people from SSI by
> >>>>>>>providing
> >>>>>>>them jobs through direct
> >>>>>>> networking.  It would have to start with one blind person who is no
> >>>>>>> longer on SSI or social security willing to jump start the process.
> >>>>>>> From there, it would move to the first person being helped.  That
> >>>>>>> person would then be able, through the efforts of the first, to
> >>>>>>> obtain a secure position and then, when he himself is secure, help
> >>>>>>> the third. Okay, it's not perfect; but, it's a start isn't it?
> >>>>>>> Seems
> >>>>>>> our only other choice is a most unpleasant one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>e-mail:
> >>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
> >>>>>>>skype:
> >>>>>>>barefootedray
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:46 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Well, it would probably be worthwhile to discuss whether SSI and
> >>>>>>>>SSDI
> >>>>>>>>represent needs or wants just to get that out of the way. But I
> >>>>>>>>don't
> >>>>>>>>see how anyone could say these programs are not needed. I'd like to
> >>>>>>>>see conservatives come up with some alternatives. Would they rather
> >>>>>>>>have blind people begging in the streets?  It seems to me that
> >>>>>>>>conservatives want to roll the clock back to the bad old days when
> >>>>>>>>blind people sold pencils on the street corner.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson"
> >>>>>>>><steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> >>>>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:50 PM
> >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense
> >>>>>>>>>to me and it is something I try to do often.
> >>>>>>>>>Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion
> >>>>>>>>>is that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
> >>>>>>>>>figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further
> >>>>>>>>>believe we need to think about the cost of what we
> >>>>>>>>>might request society and what the benefits are to us and to
> >>>>>>>>>society. These seem like reasonable questions that should
> >>>>>>>>>not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even
> >>>>>>>>>what
> >>>>>>>>>Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
> >>>>>>>>>overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a
> >>>>>>>>>sense of entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
> >>>>>>>>>to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are
> >>>>>>>>>no longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
> >>>>>>>>>large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as
> >>>>>>>>>having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
> >>>>>>>>>other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To
> >>>>>>>>>extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
> >>>>>>>>>just a theory.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Steve Jacobson
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in
> >>>>>>>>>>discussing
> >>>>>>>>>>liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
> >>>>>>>>>>occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far
> >>>>>>>>>>too many
> >>>>>>>>>>people make up their minds and then start casting around for
> >>>>>>>>>>reasons to
> >>>>>>>>>>believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for
> >>>>>>>>>>disaster. That's
> >>>>>>>>>>how mistakes are made.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of
> >>>>>>>>>>calling
> >>>>>>>>>>it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
> >>>>>>>>>>speech.
> >>>>>>>>>>And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just
> >>>>>>>>>>because
> >>>>>>>>>>we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important
> >>>>>>>>>>is that it
> >>>>>>>>>>allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each
> >>>>>>>>>>other in a
> >>>>>>>>>>society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea wins.
> >>>>>>>>>>Its
> >>>>>>>>>>called the market place of ideas.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas
> >>>>>>>>>>to their
> >>>>>>>>>>own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most
> >>>>>>>>>>people to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start
> >>>>>>>>>>casting about
> >>>>>>>>>>for information to support what they already believe.  And that is
> >>>>>>>>>>a recipe
> >>>>>>>>>>for wrongness.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you
> >>>>>>>>>>believe, you
> >>>>>>>>>>will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a
> >>>>>>>>>>better
> >>>>>>>>>>chess
> >>>>>>>>>>player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost
> >>>>>>>>>>all
> >>>>>>>>>>of my
> >>>>>>>>>>matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to
> >>>>>>>>>>get
> >>>>>>>>>>a
> >>>>>>>>>>realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my
> >>>>>>>>>>opponent's
> >>>>>>>>>>strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not
> >>>>>>>>>>see? Is he
> >>>>>>>>>>missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in
> >>>>>>>>>>my
> >>>>>>>>>>opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was
> >>>>>>>>>>like magic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>The real message in the chess tournament story is not the
> >>>>>>>>>>importance of
> >>>>>>>>>>trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is
> >>>>>>>>>>how few
> >>>>>>>>>>people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
> >>>>>>>>>>players.
> >>>>>>>>>>Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
> >>>>>>>>>>everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political
> >>>>>>>>>>opinions, take
> >>>>>>>>>>a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or
> >>>>>>>>>>not. Do
> >>>>>>>>>>they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my
> >>>>>>>>>>beliefs? Do I
> >>>>>>>>>>believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?
> >>>>>>>>>>If more
> >>>>>>>>>>people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world
> >>>>>>>>>>would be a
> >>>>>>>>>>better place.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hingson"
> >>>>>>>>>><info at michaelhingson.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind
> >>>>>>>>>>Conservatives
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as
> >>>>>>>>>>conservative and
> >>>>>>>>>>"right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been
> >>>>>>>>>>used to
> >>>>>>>>>>inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into
> >>>>>>>>>>anger and
> >>>>>>>>>>downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I
> >>>>>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>>>others
> >>>>>>>>>>survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see
> >>>>>>>>>>our
> >>>>>>>>>>potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
> >>>>>>>>>>disintegrate
> >>>>>>>>>>along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
> >>>>>>>>>>Knock off
> >>>>>>>>>>the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other
> >>>>>>>>>>names and
> >>>>>>>>>>recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it
> >>>>>>>>>>is to
> >>>>>>>>>>promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
> >>>>>>>>>>Americans
> >>>>>>>>>>should have.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Mike Hingson
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> >>>>>>>>>>"Speaking with Vision"
> >>>>>>>>>>Michael Hingson, President
> >>>>>>>>>>(415) 827-4084
> >>>>>>>>>>info at michaelhingson.com
> >>>>>>>>>>www.michaelhingson.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> >>>>>>>>>>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>>[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>>>>>>>Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Just being honest.  That's all.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>E-Mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
> >>>>>>>>>>Skype:
> >>>>>>>>>>barefootedray
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally
> >>>>>>>>>>>you
> >>>>>>>>>>>refrain
> >>>>>>>>>>from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The
> >>>>>>>>>>correct
> >>>>>>>>>>term is
> >>>>>>>>>>"liberal" or "progressive".
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
> >>>>>>>>>>><rforetjr at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>RyanO,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>stand for
> >>>>>>>>>>us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at
> >>>>>>>>>>perhaps some
> >>>>>>>>>>risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps
> >>>>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?
> >>>>>>>>>>It's the
> >>>>>>>>>>entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We
> >>>>>>>>>>poor
> >>>>>>>>>>blind
> >>>>>>>>>>think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for
> >>>>>>>>>>many of us,
> >>>>>>>>>>that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of
> >>>>>>>>>>us don't
> >>>>>>>>>>have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work.
> >>>>>>>>>>When
> >>>>>>>>>>we do,
> >>>>>>>>>>we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand,
> >>>>>>>>>>we make
> >>>>>>>>>>too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.
> >>>>>>>>>>What,
> >>>>>>>>>>there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many
> >>>>>>>>>>blind
> >>>>>>>>>>individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that
> >>>>>>>>>>government will
> >>>>>>>>>>"look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what
> >>>>>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>>>really means, you'll see that i
> >>>>>>>>>>>>t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>personally
> >>>>>>>>>>hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
> >>>>>>>>>>Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted
> >>>>>>>>>>to
> >>>>>>>>>>dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that
> >>>>>>>>>>my
> >>>>>>>>>>fellow
> >>>>>>>>>>conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to
> >>>>>>>>>>hate
> >>>>>>>>>>political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That
> >>>>>>>>>>turns my
> >>>>>>>>>>stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the
> >>>>>>>>>>federation fail to
> >>>>>>>>>>reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable
> >>>>>>>>>>being
> >>>>>>>>>>in bed
> >>>>>>>>>>with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely
> >>>>>>>>>>hoping
> >>>>>>>>>>that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking
> >>>>>>>>>>book
> >>>>>>>>>>program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride
> >>>>>>>>>>the back
> >>>>>>>>>>of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems,
> >>>>>>>>>>however, that
> >>>>>>>>>>this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
> >>>>>>>>>>personally
> >>>>>>>>>>couldn't care whether any individu
> >>>>>>>>>>>>al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>an
> >>>>>>>>>>extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is
> >>>>>>>>>>the fact
> >>>>>>>>>>that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to
> >>>>>>>>>>have to
> >>>>>>>>>>figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking
> >>>>>>>>>>for
> >>>>>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>>>check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
> >>>>>>>>>>looked
> >>>>>>>>>>after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be
> >>>>>>>>>>enough. What I
> >>>>>>>>>>look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation,
> >>>>>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>>>>rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
> >>>>>>>>>>entitlement
> >>>>>>>>>>mentality and move in to something much better for us.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>E-Mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Skype:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>barefootedray
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
> >>>>>>>>>><dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Dave
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>reach out
> >>>>>>>>>>to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to
> >>>>>>>>>>come speak
> >>>>>>>>>>at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
> >>>>>>>>>>issues. We
> >>>>>>>>>>already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of
> >>>>>>>>>>our
> >>>>>>>>>>members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days
> >>>>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>>phone
> >>>>>>>>>>tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
> >>>>>>>>>>representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because,
> >>>>>>>>>>"Obama
> >>>>>>>>>>was just too far ahead on disability issues."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>We tried
> >>>>>>>>>>to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we
> >>>>>>>>>>didn't matter.
> >>>>>>>>>>To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being
> >>>>>>>>>>a
> >>>>>>>>>>conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second
> >>>>>>>>>>option was to
> >>>>>>>>>>get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all
> >>>>>>>>>>levels.
> >>>>>>>>>>Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>It is
> >>>>>>>>>>primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
> >>>>>>>>>>communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is
> >>>>>>>>>>welcome on
> >>>>>>>>>>this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the
> >>>>>>>>>>spirit of
> >>>>>>>>>>the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion
> >>>>>>>>>>fosters a more
> >>>>>>>>>>vibrant society for all of its members.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>plan to
> >>>>>>>>>>turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information,
> >>>>>>>>>>please Email
> >>>>>>>>>>me at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>ryano218 at comcast.net
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Thank you for your time and attention.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>RyanO





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