[nfb-talk] Blind Doctors and Christmas Lights
qubit
lauraeaves at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 4 21:54:03 UTC 2010
Merry Christmas Peter.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Blind Doctors and Christmas Lights
Hello Cindy and everyone,
Despite being down with a mild case of the flu today thus far I
repaired a string of lights on our first floor bay windows that burned out
when it was put up and placed a star on our center window. I also placed
lighted garland in our dining room and just finished putting up some hooks
one to hang one of Johnny's harnesses on and the other to hold the mask for
my CPAP machine so it doesn't fall on the bed and get broken.
After I feed Johnny and take him out it will be time to light the tree
in our living room. But after I send this message I have a rather solemn
task to perform; finding and setting up Mom's ceramic Christmas tree my
stepfather got for her many years ago. It needs a few missing bulbs replaced
but it will look beautiful once it's up and running. My family gave me all
of her Christmas decorations when she died last year as she knew how much I
liked Christmas.
Thanks to her I learned how to do many things independently and was
always told not to sell myself short on account of my blindness. We're
expecting a cold front this evening. When it gets here it will feel more
like Christmas. Yup Indian Summer comes to South Texas. All the best.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Blind Doctors and Christmas Lights
Wow Peter! That's quite an accomplishment. I'm glad you like to decorate so
much. I put up a few things, but have scaled things back in recent years.
But, I do like to put out a few tasteful decorations.
Cindy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: [nfb-talk] Blind Doctors and Christmas Lights
Hello again Connie and everyone,
A blind doctor spoke at this year's national convention. You can find
his presentation in the Audio-Video Center" on our Web site at:
http://www.nfb.org
There are several profiles of successful blind individuals doing various
jobs who presented at the 2008, 2009, and 2010 national conventions up there
for the listening and learning from.
And while we're talking about what blind people can and can't do has
anyone put up their Christmas decorations yet. We've put up over 1000
miniature lights on the front of our townhome and will be doing the inside
and the back over the next few days. I can't wait to see our Frasier Fir
Tree all a glow tonight. I'll be lighting it up later today. Blindness need
not stop you from lighting up for the holidays.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
Yes, there are blind doctors. I know one personally. He is not a
surgeon, but he is a psychiatrist, and in order to get through
medical school and residency, he had to study and work in many
different facets of medicine. Blind people work in many different
medical fields...nurses, physical and occupational therapists,
psychologists and psychiatrists and many other occupations and do it
quite well. However, getting through to you is like trying to move a
mountain with a broken shovel, so I quit.
Connie Canode
At 11:08 AM 12/4/2010, you wrote:
>not the exact connection.
>does a hospital hire a blind surgeon and a person to tell him what
>he is about to slice?
>no, and i don't know how the guy 30 years ago talked the employer
>into hiring another to do everything for him.
>
>Bryan Schulz
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
><satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:43 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>
>
>>What about this parallel. Do you think that Senators and congress
>>people do not have assistants. And what about lawyers. Do you
>>think that paralegals are not assisting them? Even doctors have
>>assistants.
>>
>>Connie Canode
>>At 10:34 AM 12/4/2010, you wrote:
>>>so you also will not possibly accept that the blind builder will
>>>take more time to do the same task at the same skill.
>>>
>>>how about this parallel, i know a man who worked for state govt
>>>for 30 years and had an assistant the whole time.
>>>what boss in this era would hire two people to do the same job as one
>>>could?
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:18 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>
>>>
>>>>Brian,
>>>>
>>>>Why do you believe that a blind carpenter cannot perform as well as a
>>>>sighted one? Why do you assume that it will naturally take more time
>>>>and
>>>>have more waste? You're refusing to see that a blind person can do the
>>>>job
>>>>equally as well as a sighted person, given the training and experience.
>>>>It
>>>>really seems that you believe blindness necessarily means inferiority.
>>>>It
>>>>doesn't.
>>>>
>>>>Cindy
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz"
>>>><b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:58 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>everyone doesn't get the speed point.
>>>>how much extra time did it take him compared to same skill of a sighted
>>>>builder and how much material had to be recut?
>>>>
>>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
>>>><satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:32 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>We have a very close friend, totally blind who can do just about
>>>>>anything.
>>>>>He repairs cars, he remodeled his basement, rebuilding the steps, and
>>>>>recently built us a porch on the back of our house. He built a
>>>>>beautiful
>>>>>deck on his own house and did it single-handedly. He does electrical
>>>>>work, plumbing and just about anything else you can name. I wish my
>>>>>husband could do what he can do. It would have saved us a ton of money
>>>>>years ago before I knew him. Of course we paid for the porch, but
>>>>>since
>>>>>he is a friend, we made a good deal. Never under-estimate the ability
>>>>>of
>>>>>a competent blind person. With the right tools and knowledge, you can
>>>>>do
>>>>>whatever you choose.
>>>>>
>>>>>Connie Canode
>>>>>At 09:13 AM 12/4/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>Brian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Get a life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>>>nfb of WA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>On
>>>>>>Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And what would you propose? Leaving things the way they are? Don't
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>think there are any blind people actually involved in the building of
>>>>>>their
>>>>>>own homes? Could it be that you don't think we do much of anything?
>>>>>>Oh,
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>course. Sit in rocking chairs and listen to our state provided
>>>>>>reading
>>>>>>radio service. Yeah, that's the life for sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Dec 3, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wishful thinking...
>>>>>> > people here have no clue what happens in the one week build.
>>>>>> > a relative worked on one and there were all kind of
>>>>>> worksmanship > f-ups
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>people running everywhere.
>>>>>> > you really think a blind guy is going to carry sheets of
>>>>>> drywall > with
>>>>>>material and tools all over the site without falling?
>>>>>> > you don't get the pace. just like there is a blind guy who owns a
>>>>>> > racing
>>>>>>team but doesn't do the actual repair during race day due to the time
>>>>>>limits.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Bryan Schulz
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
>>>>>><satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:43 PM
>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Ray, that is an absolutely awesome idea. Now if we can
>>>>>> implement >> it,
>>>>>>people would certainly get a different perspective on what blind
>>>>>>people
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>really like.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Connie Canode
>>>>>> >> At 11:43 AM 12/3/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>> >>> YOu know Peter, I was just kind of thinking. I know of
>>>>>> only one >>> way
>>>>>> >>> to
>>>>>>stop this. What we need to do is get some independent and
>>>>>>competent blind
>>>>>>people on the make over crew. Once we do that, maybe they'll get the
>>>>>>idea.
>>>>>>Barring that, maybe we ought to have some competent blind people at
>>>>>>least
>>>>>>helping out on a make-over project; since I'm sure they wouldn't let
>>>>>>us
>>>>>>officially be part of what I presume bills itself as a professional
>>>>>>make-over crew.
>>>>>> >>> Thoughts?
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> >>> barefootedray
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Dec 3, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> > Hello John and everyone,
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > If you take the time to read the message I sent concerning
>>>>>> >>> > an
>>>>>> >>> experience
>>>>>> >>> > we had when looking for an apartment last spring
>>>>>> you'd >>> > understand
>>>>>> >>> > why
>>>>>> > the
>>>>>> >>> > red flags are flying. If Extreme Make-Over Home
>>>>>> Edition >>> > continues
>>>>>> >>> to portray
>>>>>> >>> > us as helpless unable to live on our own without major
>>>>>> >>> modifications to the
>>>>>> >>> > home environment or a presumed dependency on a million gadgets
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>>incidents
>>>>>> >>> > like the one I described in my message earlier this morning
>>>>>> >>> > will
>>>>>> >>> continue to
>>>>>> >>> > happen to blind people seeking housing. While we can't
>>>>>> prove >>> > that
>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> > manager at that apartment complex was influenced by an
>>>>>> episode >>> > of
>>>>>> >>> this show
>>>>>> >>> > where a blind person or a couple were featured if this
>>>>>> TV >>> > network
>>>>>> >>> continues
>>>>>> >>> > to cast us as unable to manage our own home they'll certainly
>>>>>> >>> > be
>>>>>> >>> suspect in
>>>>>> >>> > my book.
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > Peter Donahue
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> >>> > From: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net>
>>>>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> >>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > Well, I'd presume because you don't make a lot of money as a
>>>>>>disability
>>>>>> >>> > advocate.
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> >>> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:40 PM
>>>>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> I feel the same way. First question that came to
>>>>>> find...If >>> >> these
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>people
>>>>>> >>> >> are
>>>>>> >>> >> so fantastic and can motivate everyone to get past their
>>>>>>disabilities, >> and
>>>>>> >>> >> they have learned so much in the four years they've been
>>>>>> >>> >> blind,
>>>>>> >>> >> why
>>>>>> >> can't
>>>>>> >>> >> they maintain their house so it isn't falling down around
>>>>>> >>> >> them?
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Cindy
>>>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> >>> >> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>>>> >>> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 9:16 PM
>>>>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> I hate to be this way, but, how come I'm already skepticle?
>>>>>> >>> >> Anyone
>>>>>> >> care
>>>>>> >>> >> to
>>>>>> >>> >> guess why?
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Sincerely,
>>>>>> >>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Skype Name:
>>>>>> >>> >> barefootedray
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Ryan O wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> >>> >>> Q From: Mary Watkins
>>>>>> >>> >>> To: MAG_News at mail4.wgbh.org
>>>>>> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:06 PM
>>>>>> >>> >>> Subject: WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning
>>>>>> into >>> >>> ABC'S
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>"Extreme
>>>>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" on Sunday, December 5
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning into
>>>>>> ABC'S >>> >>> "Extreme
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>Makeover:
>>>>>> >>> >>> Home Edition"
>>>>>> >>> >>> on Sunday, December 5 (8-9pm, EST)
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH encourages all those
>>>>>>interested >>> >>> in
>>>>>> >>> >>> inclusive
>>>>>> >>> >>> technology for people who are blind or have low vision to
>>>>>> >>> >>> tune
>>>>>> >>> >>> into
>>>>>> >>> >>> "Extreme
>>>>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" this Sunday evening, December 5.
>>>>>>While >>> >>> we
>>>>>> >>> can't
>>>>>> >>> >>> provide any specific information on what will be seen
>>>>>> and >>> >>> heard
>>>>>> >>> >>> (it
>>>>>> >>> would
>>>>>> >>> >>> spoil the surprise!), the episode promises to create
>>>>>>much >>> >>> greater
>>>>>> >>> >>> awareness
>>>>>> >>> >>> of the services and products now available for people who
>>>>>> >>> >>> have
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>limited or
>>>>>> >>> >>> no
>>>>>> >>> >>> sight.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> Here is the information the production company has released
>>>>>> >>> >>> in
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>advance
>>>>>> >>> >>> about
>>>>>> >>> >>> this episode:
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> The "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" team has selected the
>>>>>> >>> >>> Anderson
>>>>>> >>> >>> Family
>>>>>> >>> >>> in Cleveland, Ohio. The family of four answered the call to
>>>>>> >>> >>> action
>>>>>> >>> when
>>>>>> >>> >>> they
>>>>>> >>> >>> inspired the community to heighten their awareness of the
>>>>>> >>> >>> obstacles
>>>>>> >>> >>> facing
>>>>>> >>> >>> the disabled in their community. Diving headlong into
>>>>>>their >>> >>> work,
>>>>>> >>> Andre
>>>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>>>> >>> >>> Jasmine have dedicated their time to supporting and
>>>>>> >>> >>> counseling
>>>>>> >>> >>> the
>>>>>> >>> >>> disabled
>>>>>> >>> >>> by connecting them with resources to help them live and
>>>>>>lead >>> >>> more
>>>>>> >>> >>> independent lives. The Andersons have proven to be
>>>>>>the >>> >>> definitive
>>>>>> >>> role
>>>>>> >>> >>> models as they themselves lost their sight 4 years ago.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> Empowered by their own obstacles, Andre and Jasmine have
>>>>>> >>> >>> never
>>>>>> >>> >>> let
>>>>>> >>> >>> anything
>>>>>> >>> >>> slow them down. Together they have teamed to complete grad
>>>>>> >>> >>> school,
>>>>>> >>> run a
>>>>>> >>> >>> center for people with disabilities, created a support
>>>>>>group, >>> >>> and
>>>>>>all
>>>>>> >>> >>> while
>>>>>> >>> >>> balancing life at home with their 2 boys (one of whom
>>>>>> is >>> >>> hearing
>>>>>> >>> >>> impaired).
>>>>>> >>> >>> Despite having lost their sight after their sons, Jasison and
>>>>>>Jahzion
>>>>>> >>> >>> were
>>>>>> >>> >>> born, Andre and Jasmine have rallied back and have
>>>>>>embraced >>> >>> their
>>>>>> >>> >>> reality.
>>>>>> >>> >>> While they continue to empower their community, the family
>>>>>> >>> >>> has
>>>>>> >>> >>> hit a
>>>>>> >>> >>> rough
>>>>>> >>> >>> patch. Their home is falling apart around them and it
>>>>>> has >>> >>> become
>>>>>> >>> >>> complicated
>>>>>> >>> >>> and hazardous for them to live in especially in the
>>>>>> face of >>> >>> how
>>>>>>their
>>>>>> >>> >>> needs
>>>>>> >>> >>> continue to grow.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> On September 29th the Andersons will have some changes
>>>>>> in >>> >>> sight
>>>>>> >>> >>> when
>>>>>> >>> Ty
>>>>>> >>> >>> Pennington, designers Michael Maloney, Tracy Huston,
>>>>>> and >>> >>> Xzibit
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>deliver a
>>>>>> >>> >>> "Smart House" in just 7 days. Local builders Marous
>>>>>> Brothers >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>Construction
>>>>>> >>> >>> and community volunteers will rebuild the structure and
>>>>>>give >>> >>> them
>>>>>>the >>> key
>>>>>> >>> >>> to
>>>>>> >>> >>> live above and beyond their wildest dreams. The Andersons
>>>>>> >>> >>> will
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>vacation
>>>>>> >>> >>> in
>>>>>> >>> >>> Crested Butte, Colorado.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> About "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition"
>>>>>> >>> >>> The Emmy-award winning reality program "Extreme Makeover:
>>>>>> >>> >>> Home
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>Edition,"
>>>>>> >>> >>> now
>>>>>> >>> >>> in its 8th season, is produced by Endemol USA, a division of
>>>>>> >>> >>> Endemol
>>>>>> >>> >>> Holding. It's executive-produced Brady Connell and George
>>>>>> >>> >>> Verschoor.
>>>>>> >>> >>> David
>>>>>> >>> >>> Goldberg is Chairman, Endemol North America. The show airs
>>>>>> >>> >>> Sundays
>>>>>> >>> from
>>>>>> >>> >>> 8:00-9:00 p.m., ET on ABC.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> About the Media Access Group at WGBH
>>>>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH, which includes a Services
>>>>>> >>> >>> division
>>>>>> >>> and a
>>>>>> >>> >>> research and development division--the Carl and Ruth Shapiro
>>>>>> >>> >>> Family
>>>>>> >>> >>> National
>>>>>> >>> >>> Center for Accessible Media--has pioneered and delivered
>>>>>> >>> >>> captioned
>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>>> >>> >>> described media for nearly four decades to people in
>>>>>>their >>> >>> homes,
>>>>>> >>> >>> classrooms, at work and in the community. And the Media
>>>>>> >>> >>> Access
>>>>>> >>> >>> Group
>>>>>> >>> >>> continues to develop new solutions to access challenges as
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>technology,
>>>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>>>> >>> >>> the way we all consume media, evolve. Members of the
>>>>>> group's >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>collective
>>>>>> >>> >>> staff represent the leading experts in their fields and their
>>>>>>success >>> is
>>>>>> >>> >>> exemplified by a history of accomplishments and continuous
>>>>>> >>> >>> growth,
>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>> >>> >>> integration of innovative products and services into
>>>>>> society >>> >>> at
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>large,
>>>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>>>> >>> >>> the enthusiastic support of the audiences served, including
>>>>>> >>> >>> 36
>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>million
>>>>>> >>> >>> people who are deaf, hard of hearing, blind or have
>>>>>> low >>> >>> vision.
>>>>>> >>> >>> More
>>>>>> >>> >>> information about the Media Access Group at WGBH can be
>>>>>>found >>> >>> at:
>>>>>> >>> >>> http://access.wgbh.org.
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> Contact:
>>>>>> >>> >>> Mary Watkins
>>>>>> >>> >>> mary_watkins at wgbh.org
>>>>>> >>> >>> 617 300-3700
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> RyanO
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> >> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> >> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> >> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> >> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> > nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> > nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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