[nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Sun Dec 5 17:37:32 UTC 2010
It is my contention that in discussions like this people often completely miss the point. The point really isn't whether a blind person would take longer than
a sighted person. The point is really whether a blind person can do a given job well enough to be worth hiring. For most jobs, there is no mythical sighted
person who is a perfect employee, always efficient. Rather, and hang on for this, sighted persons are like us with a range of abilities. Even if I accept
some things about programming might take me longer, that does not mean that I am always going to be the lesser of the desired options when hiring. It
depends with whom I am being compared. There are going to be sighted persons in the market who will take longer than I because they may have less
skills in other areas than I. When we say that a blind person can do a given job as well as a sighted person, we are not claiming that any blind person will
do as well as any sighted person. What we mean is that we can do a job that is within the range of quality required for that job. Would I program better or
more quickly if I had vision? I probably would, but if I had vision I may never have become a programmer at all, so what's the point? I may have been
killed in Vietnam, or perhaps
because I may not have thought as much about my future, not pursued the education that I have as a blind person.
As a blind perspon, I've hired sighted persons to do odd jobs around the house and found that I knew more about certain aspects than they did. I hired
them, though, because I didn't have the time and because I assumed they would know what they were doing. A couple of years ago, a guy who had
experience as an electricion connected some outlets in my house, and when I plugged something into one it triggered the ground fault detector in another
outlet. I was able to correct it. I am not saying that since some sighted people don't do good jobs that the public should accept us doing inferior jobs.
What I am saying is that there are ranges of abilities in all jobs. There isn't a single uniform performance standard for sighted people. What we shoot for is
to be good enough to be well within the range. Whether we could have done a job faster or better if we were sighted is completely irrelevant. Whether
there are sighted persons who can do a job faster than us is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether we can do a job good enough to be worth hiring.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 11:31:58 -0600, Peter Donahue wrote:
>Hello Cindy and everyone,
> Our own George Wortzel is a blind carpenter. He spoke during the 2006
>national convention and is living proof that the blind can succeed as
>carpenters, plumbers, electricians, you name it. We don't need our own
>members harboring doubts about our ability to succeed in various
>occupations.
>Peter Donahue
>Peter Donahue
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:18 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>Brian,
>Why do you believe that a blind carpenter cannot perform as well as a
>sighted one? Why do you assume that it will naturally take more time and
>have more waste? You're refusing to see that a blind person can do the job
>equally as well as a sighted person, given the training and experience. It
>really seems that you believe blindness necessarily means inferiority. It
>doesn't.
>Cindy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:58 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>everyone doesn't get the speed point.
>how much extra time did it take him compared to same skill of a sighted
>builder and how much material had to be recut?
>Bryan Schulz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:32 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>> We have a very close friend, totally blind who can do just about anything.
>> He repairs cars, he remodeled his basement, rebuilding the steps, and
>> recently built us a porch on the back of our house. He built a beautiful
>> deck on his own house and did it single-handedly. He does electrical
>> work, plumbing and just about anything else you can name. I wish my
>> husband could do what he can do. It would have saved us a ton of money
>> years ago before I knew him. Of course we paid for the porch, but since
>> he is a friend, we made a good deal. Never under-estimate the ability of
>> a competent blind person. With the right tools and knowledge, you can do
>> whatever you choose.
>>
>> Connie Canode
>> At 09:13 AM 12/4/2010, you wrote:
>>>Brian,
>>>
>>>Get a life.
>>>
>>>
>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>nfb of WA
>>>
>>>cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
>>>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>
>>>And what would you propose? Leaving things the way they are? Don't you
>>>think there are any blind people actually involved in the building of
>>>their
>>>own homes? Could it be that you don't think we do much of anything? Oh,
>>>of
>>>course. Sit in rocking chairs and listen to our state provided reading
>>>radio service. Yeah, that's the life for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>>Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>>Skype Name:
>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>On Dec 3, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>> > wishful thinking...
>>> > people here have no clue what happens in the one week build.
>>> > a relative worked on one and there were all kind of worksmanship f-ups
>>> > and
>>>people running everywhere.
>>> > you really think a blind guy is going to carry sheets of drywall with
>>>material and tools all over the site without falling?
>>> > you don't get the pace. just like there is a blind guy who owns a
>>> > racing
>>>team but doesn't do the actual repair during race day due to the time
>>>limits.
>>> >
>>> > Bryan Schulz
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
>>><satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:43 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Ray, that is an absolutely awesome idea. Now if we can implement it,
>>>people would certainly get a different perspective on what blind people
>>>are
>>>really like.
>>> >>
>>> >> Connie Canode
>>> >> At 11:43 AM 12/3/2010, you wrote:
>>> >>> YOu know Peter, I was just kind of thinking. I know of only one way
>>> >>> to
>>>stop this. What we need to do is get some independent and competent blind
>>>people on the make over crew. Once we do that, maybe they'll get the
>>>idea.
>>>Barring that, maybe we ought to have some competent blind people at least
>>>helping out on a make-over project; since I'm sure they wouldn't let us
>>>officially be part of what I presume bills itself as a professional
>>>make-over crew.
>>> >>> Thoughts?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Skype Name:
>>> >>> barefootedray
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Dec 3, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > Hello John and everyone,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > If you take the time to read the message I sent concerning an
>>> >>> experience
>>> >>> > we had when looking for an apartment last spring you'd understand
>>> >>> > why
>>> > the
>>> >>> > red flags are flying. If Extreme Make-Over Home Edition continues
>>> >>> to portray
>>> >>> > us as helpless unable to live on our own without major
>>> >>> modifications to the
>>> >>> > home environment or a presumed dependency on a million gadgets >
>>>incidents
>>> >>> > like the one I described in my message earlier this morning will
>>> >>> continue to
>>> >>> > happen to blind people seeking housing. While we can't prove that
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > manager at that apartment complex was influenced by an episode of
>>> >>> this show
>>> >>> > where a blind person or a couple were featured if this TV network
>>> >>> continues
>>> >>> > to cast us as unable to manage our own home they'll certainly be
>>> >>> suspect in
>>> >>> > my book.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Peter Donahue
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> > From: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net>
>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Well, I'd presume because you don't make a lot of money as a
>>>disability
>>> >>> > advocate.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:40 PM
>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> I feel the same way. First question that came to find...If these
>>> >>> >> >>
>>>people
>>> >>> >> are
>>> >>> >> so fantastic and can motivate everyone to get past their
>>>disabilities, >> and
>>> >>> >> they have learned so much in the four years they've been blind,
>>> >>> >> why
>>> >> can't
>>> >>> >> they maintain their house so it isn't falling down around them?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Cindy
>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>> >>> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 9:16 PM
>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> I hate to be this way, but, how come I'm already skepticle?
>>> >>> >> Anyone
>>> >> care
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> guess why?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Skype Name:
>>> >>> >> barefootedray
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Ryan O wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >>> Q From: Mary Watkins
>>> >>> >>> To: MAG_News at mail4.wgbh.org
>>> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:06 PM
>>> >>> >>> Subject: WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning into ABC'S
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>"Extreme
>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" on Sunday, December 5
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning into ABC'S "Extreme
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>Makeover:
>>> >>> >>> Home Edition"
>>> >>> >>> on Sunday, December 5 (8-9pm, EST)
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH encourages all those interested in
>>> >>> >>> inclusive
>>> >>> >>> technology for people who are blind or have low vision to tune
>>> >>> >>> into
>>> >>> >>> "Extreme
>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" this Sunday evening, December 5. While we
>>> >>> can't
>>> >>> >>> provide any specific information on what will be seen and heard
>>> >>> >>> (it
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> >>> spoil the surprise!), the episode promises to create much greater
>>> >>> >>> awareness
>>> >>> >>> of the services and products now available for people who have
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>limited or
>>> >>> >>> no
>>> >>> >>> sight.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Here is the information the production company has released in
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>advance
>>> >>> >>> about
>>> >>> >>> this episode:
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> The "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" team has selected the
>>> >>> >>> Anderson
>>> >>> >>> Family
>>> >>> >>> in Cleveland, Ohio. The family of four answered the call to
>>> >>> >>> action
>>> >>> when
>>> >>> >>> they
>>> >>> >>> inspired the community to heighten their awareness of the
>>> >>> >>> obstacles
>>> >>> >>> facing
>>> >>> >>> the disabled in their community. Diving headlong into their work,
>>> >>> Andre
>>> >>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>> Jasmine have dedicated their time to supporting and counseling
>>> >>> >>> the
>>> >>> >>> disabled
>>> >>> >>> by connecting them with resources to help them live and lead more
>>> >>> >>> independent lives. The Andersons have proven to be the definitive
>>> >>> role
>>> >>> >>> models as they themselves lost their sight 4 years ago.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Empowered by their own obstacles, Andre and Jasmine have never
>>> >>> >>> let
>>> >>> >>> anything
>>> >>> >>> slow them down. Together they have teamed to complete grad
>>> >>> >>> school,
>>> >>> run a
>>> >>> >>> center for people with disabilities, created a support group, and
>>>all
>>> >>> >>> while
>>> >>> >>> balancing life at home with their 2 boys (one of whom is hearing
>>> >>> >>> impaired).
>>> >>> >>> Despite having lost their sight after their sons, Jasison and
>>>Jahzion
>>> >>> >>> were
>>> >>> >>> born, Andre and Jasmine have rallied back and have embraced their
>>> >>> >>> reality.
>>> >>> >>> While they continue to empower their community, the family has
>>> >>> >>> hit a
>>> >>> >>> rough
>>> >>> >>> patch. Their home is falling apart around them and it has become
>>> >>> >>> complicated
>>> >>> >>> and hazardous for them to live in especially in the face of how
>>>their
>>> >>> >>> needs
>>> >>> >>> continue to grow.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> On September 29th the Andersons will have some changes in sight
>>> >>> >>> when
>>> >>> Ty
>>> >>> >>> Pennington, designers Michael Maloney, Tracy Huston, and Xzibit
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>deliver a
>>> >>> >>> "Smart House" in just 7 days. Local builders Marous Brothers >>>
>>>Construction
>>> >>> >>> and community volunteers will rebuild the structure and give them
>>>the >>> key
>>> >>> >>> to
>>> >>> >>> live above and beyond their wildest dreams. The Andersons will
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>vacation
>>> >>> >>> in
>>> >>> >>> Crested Butte, Colorado.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> About "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition"
>>> >>> >>> The Emmy-award winning reality program "Extreme Makeover: Home
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>Edition,"
>>> >>> >>> now
>>> >>> >>> in its 8th season, is produced by Endemol USA, a division of
>>> >>> >>> Endemol
>>> >>> >>> Holding. It's executive-produced Brady Connell and George
>>> >>> >>> Verschoor.
>>> >>> >>> David
>>> >>> >>> Goldberg is Chairman, Endemol North America. The show airs
>>> >>> >>> Sundays
>>> >>> from
>>> >>> >>> 8:00-9:00 p.m., ET on ABC.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> About the Media Access Group at WGBH
>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH, which includes a Services
>>> >>> >>> division
>>> >>> and a
>>> >>> >>> research and development division--the Carl and Ruth Shapiro
>>> >>> >>> Family
>>> >>> >>> National
>>> >>> >>> Center for Accessible Media--has pioneered and delivered
>>> >>> >>> captioned
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>> described media for nearly four decades to people in their homes,
>>> >>> >>> classrooms, at work and in the community. And the Media Access
>>> >>> >>> Group
>>> >>> >>> continues to develop new solutions to access challenges as >>>
>>>technology,
>>> >>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>> the way we all consume media, evolve. Members of the group's >>>
>>>collective
>>> >>> >>> staff represent the leading experts in their fields and their
>>>success >>> is
>>> >>> >>> exemplified by a history of accomplishments and continuous
>>> >>> >>> growth,
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> >>> integration of innovative products and services into society at
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>large,
>>> >>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>> the enthusiastic support of the audiences served, including 36
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>million
>>> >>> >>> people who are deaf, hard of hearing, blind or have low vision.
>>> >>> >>> More
>>> >>> >>> information about the Media Access Group at WGBH can be found at:
>>> >>> >>> http://access.wgbh.org.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Contact:
>>> >>> >>> Mary Watkins
>>> >>> >>> mary_watkins at wgbh.org
>>> >>> >>> 617 300-3700
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> RyanO
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
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>>
>>
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