[nfb-talk] Enough already!

Ray Foret Jr rforetjr at att.net
Thu Dec 9 22:56:07 UTC 2010 

Josh, I reckon if we could avoid naming names, we might make more progress here.  This is not a thread which, I think, lends itself to that.  I'm sure Joseph and I would have named names if we felt it necessary.  That's why I have not and will not do so now.


Sincerely, 
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!

Skype Name:
barefootedray

On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

> Hi, My teacher in High School did show me different ways to fold my
> money, and that's what I do. You and I can discuss this in another
> thread. I have something to say on the topic of this thread as well.
> I've noticed how us conservatives on this thread are being attacked by
> the liberals here. Gloria, you, Ms. Judy, and others have been
> attacked because we disagreed with the little implanted chips given to
> visually impaired people. That's just one of those instances you were
> referring to. Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 12/9/10, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>> Well, Josh, my answer to you would not be the  Ibill; instead, I'd advise
>> you to just save your money and fold it different ways.  Myself, I'd love to
>> have the Ibill.
>> 
>> Back to the topic though.
>> 
>> I felt a need to come on here and publically support Joseph because, as
>> usual, I can't stand to see a friend stand alone on an issue; especially
>> when I feel he or she is right.
>> 
>> This is one such case.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>> 
>>> Ray, I agree with you wholeheartedly, although, I disagree with the
>>> NFB's stance on accessible currency for the blind. The argument I get
>>> from most NFB members is, "well, get the I-Bill," but they don't
>>> understand is that it's too expensive for some of us, like myself who
>>> are going to college, and having to pay for that. $99 for a little
>>> gadget is too much. If they'll lower the price at the next convention
>>> that I'll be able to attend, (2012 in Dallas,) I'll buy the I-Bill.
>>> But until then, accessible currency is the way to go, (just my humble
>>> oppinion.) Blessings, Joshua
>>> 
>>> On 12/9/10, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> David, I must agree with Joseph on this point.  I will speak frankly
>>>> here.
>>>> Why do you tolerate vicious attacks on not only the NFB but on the
>>>> members
>>>> of this list who hold with that way of thinking, not just because some
>>>> federation leader says so, but because of their own personal experience?
>>>> I
>>>> understand wanting to tolerate healthy and open and honest discussion;
>>>> but
>>>> David, there are some individuals, (I'm not going to name names because I
>>>> believe you know who they are if you have been truly reading the posts
>>>> here), who have violently attacked not only me but others who think as I
>>>> do.
>>>> I have had enough; and, so, I dare say, have those who hold with me.  I'm
>>>> not giving out the names of these attackers because I don't feel the need
>>>> to
>>>> sink this list in to that mire.  If a person honestly does not know the
>>>> answer to the reason why an independent blind person says or thinks or
>>>> does
>>>> something, of course, it goes without  saying that they should feel more
>>>> than free to ask.  But Dave, I think we both know that this is not what
>>>> Joseph and I are talking about here.  Honest ignorance is one thing.
>>>> Attacks are another.  I will not claim to be totally guiltless myself in
>>>> this regard, and so, indeed, I may not be.  However, this has truly gone
>>>> on
>>>> quite long enough.  I'm writing this as an open response so that everyone
>>>> may know just exactly how I feel.  Mind you, I can't speak for others
>>>> here
>>>> directly, (only they can and must), but, I think I know some others here
>>>> well enough to be able to make a fairly good guess at how they feel.
>>>> This
>>>> is supposed to be a list where ideas can be freely shared, and, sans the
>>>> personal attacks, (which have become more and more of late), it is.  But,
>>>> I
>>>> too have noticed that those who defend the NFB positions on certain
>>>> matters
>>>> are threatened and the attackers defended.  Why is this?  Surely, you
>>>> must
>>>> know what I'm talking about?  I believe you do.  Tolerance is, in
>>>> general,
>>>> good, but, there comes a time when enough is enough.  It would appear
>>>> that,
>>>> (at least with respect to Joseph and myself), our patience has about
>>>> reached
>>>> it's end.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>> 
>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>> 
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 2:05 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> David,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have you noticed the trend of discussions on this list over the past
>>>>> couple of years or so?  I have, and I’ve double-checked the archives to
>>>>> be
>>>>> sure I wasn’t reading something into it.  The pattern is that every
>>>>> large
>>>>> discussion seems to involve one group of people arguing for the ability
>>>>> of
>>>>> the blind, for the NFB, its policies, and its mission.  The other side
>>>>> of
>>>>> the discussion is generally one person.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The pattern of the discussion is that the individual says something
>>>>> incendiary against one of the above, something I have a hard time
>>>>> accepting is unintentional at this point.  The group reacts, some with
>>>>> distaste, some with disagreement, and some with anger.  This last group
>>>>> has taken the bait, if you will.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is where you come in, because inevitably the individual insists
>>>>> that
>>>>> he is “offended” and “baselessly attacked” for his views.  You defend
>>>>> him,
>>>>> going so far as to threaten to ban longtime regulars and well-respected
>>>>> federationists.  The individual takes this as a sign that he may stand
>>>>> behind you, and continue to insult not only us few here, but everything
>>>>> this organization stands for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The fact that there is not a single person on this list that does not
>>>>> know
>>>>> of whom I speak is evidence in and of itself.  It’s really got to stop.
>>>>> Those who would not be flamed should not make a habit of setting fires.
>>>>> Having set a few myself over the years, it comes with the territory.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:19:24PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
>>>>>> This is a personal attack and is totally unacceptable.  You can
>>>>>> disagree
>>>>>> with someone -- but please stick to facts, not speculation etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David Andrews, Moderator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> At 03:09 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>> I agree Gloria.  He is a very shallow person, and I don't care of his
>>>>>>> $250,000 house is paid off or not.  He could rip off Bernie Madoff,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> biggest cheat in the world, and he wouldn't impress me..smile.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Connie Canode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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