[nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopletodetectobjects'

Fri Nov 5 02:34:57 UTC 2010

I think one thing that is forgotten here is that not only is eyesight useful
from a functional perspective, it's also asthetically enriching, and even
fun.  I am a perfectly well-adjusted blind person, but if I were offered
20/20 vision, or even something approximating it, I would grab the
opportunity.  To me, it's like someone offering me a trip to Paris, or
Tokyo, Fiji, or name  your location -- why not go?  It's fun!  

However, I'm hardly sitting around waiting for someone to make me this
offer.  I believe we are at best many decades away from offering truly
useful artificial eyesight that doesn't involve painful surgery, and a major
interruption of one's life for minimal gain.  

It's certainly also true that learning to live as a sighted person after
being blind most of my life is no small thing.  It would be hugely
transformative, and not always in a good way.

Brian M

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Wm. Ritchhart
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:49 PM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows
blindpeopletodetectobjects'

Ray,

I believe you are just flat wrong.  Although being totally blind is no
tragedy, I and most blind people I know would love to have useable vision.
It has nothing to do with accepting blindness or being well-adjusted.  It
has everything to do with the fact that most of the people in the world are
sighted and as a result they organize the world to be convenient for sighted
people.  There is nothing ill adjusted in wishing to be able to
operate/function in a simpler manner.

Thanks, William

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:09 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
detectobjects'

Well, John, obviously, you want it; and therefore, I conclude that you are
not as well adjusted to your blindness as you really ought to be.  Since you
wanted a frank answer, there you go.  Perhaps, however, you didn't expect it
to be so direct.  Any person who has not, for what ever reason, well
adjusted to their blindness will or might feel that something is lacking;
and, therefore, will welcome the chip to cause them to see.  In my
situation, however, sight would really not fix anything.  We tend to see
ourselves as others see us; and, this means, whether we like it or not, that
if people generally think a blind person can't do anything, (and if that
blind person not well adjusted to blindness only sarounds himself with
people who think as he does), then, of course, he's going to believe the
same about himself.  the very fact that anyone whom so ever could want such
a chip is a reflection of a lack of proper knowledge about blindness; and,
to be frank, an acceptance of the eronious belief that we blind are
inferior.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!

Skype Name:
barefootedray

On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:28 PM, John Heim wrote:

> No, there's nothing wrong with being satisfied with being blind.  But
that's not what you said. You said that if someone  is well adjusted, you
don't see why they'd find this desirable.  This implies that if you want
this device, you're not well adjusted. But rather than relying on
implications, I asked you straight out.
>
> So let me ask you again, are you saying that anyone who wants this 
> device
is not well adjusted to being blind?
>
> Hint: I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not be a judgmental, 
> self
righteous SOB. I suggest you take it.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
detectobjects'
>
>
>> That is correct John.  I don't need or want a chip to make me see.  Why?
Simple.  I'm happy with myself as a blind person.  Anything the matter with
that?
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:00 PM, John Heim wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that if you are well
adjusted to being blind, you wouldn't want a chip to allow you to see?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind peopleto
detectobjects'
>>>
>>>
>>>> Nope.  My brain's just fine like it is.
>>>> Honestly, if one adjusts to blindness, why would one want such a thing?
IF not well adjusted, then I suppose one might want such a thing.  but, what
with the programs we have in place, one would think such a chip undesirable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have no desires for that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>
>>>>> cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>>>> Behalf Of Jennifer Aberdeen
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:30 AM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to 
>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank God!
>>>>>
>>>>> This is great news!
>>>>>
____________________________________________________________________________
>>>>> _______________________
>>>>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness
products!
>>>>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen
>>>>>
>>>>> Get paid to read email!
>>>>> http://www.sendearnings.com/?r=ref1487633
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Chrane"
<kenneth.chrane at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <CSDB-ALUMNI at googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Cc: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to 
>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about this Article?
>>>>>> Ken Chrane
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lela Behee
>>>>>> To: venetian-blind at googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:38 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though this may not be helpful for those of us who have 
>>>>>> prosthetic
eyes
>>>>>> and so have no retina, what a very exciting leap forward this is 
>>>>>> in technology!
>>>>>> Praise our Lord!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 November 2010 Last updated at 20:49 ET Implanted chip 'allows 
>>>>>> blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>> By Neil Bowdler Science reporter, BBC News
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miikka Terho is given the task of reading letters which together
misspell
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> own name
>>>>>> A man with an inherited form of blindness has been able to 
>>>>>> identify letters and a clock face using a pioneering implant, 
>>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>> Miikka Terho, 46, from Finland, was fitted with an experimental 
>>>>>> chip behind his retina in Germany. Success was also reported in 
>>>>>> other patients.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The chip allows a patient to detect objects with their eyes, 
>>>>>> unlike a rival approach that uses an external camera.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details of the work are in the journal Proceedings of the Royal
Society B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professor Eberhart Zrenner, of Germany's University of Tuebingen, 
>>>>>> and colleagues at private company Retina Implant AG initially 
>>>>>> tested their
sub-retinal
>>>>>> chip on
>>>>>> 11 people.
>>>>>> Some noticed no improvement as their condition was too advanced 
>>>>>> to
benefit
>>>>>
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the implant, but a majority were able to pick out bright objects,
Prof
>>>>>> Zrenner
>>>>>> told the BBC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, it was only when the chip was placed further behind the
retina,
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> central macular area in three people, that they achieved the best
results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two of these had lost their vision because of the inherited 
>>>>>> condition retinitis pigmentosa, or RP, the other because of a 
>>>>>> related inherited condition called choroideraemia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RP leads to the progressive degeneration of cells in the eye's
retina,
>>>>>> resulting
>>>>>> in night blindness, tunnel vision and then usually permanent
blindness.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> symptoms can begin from early childhood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best results were achieved with Mr Terho, who was able to
recognise
>>>>>> cutlery
>>>>>> and a mug on a table, a clock face and discern seven different 
>>>>>> shades
of
>>>>>> grey.
>>>>>> He was also able to move around a room independently and approach
people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In further tests he read large letters set out before him, 
>>>>>> including
his
>>>>>> name,
>>>>>> which had been deliberately misspelled. He soon noticed it had 
>>>>>> been
spelt
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> same way as the Finnish racing driver Mika Hakkinnen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Three or four days after the implantation, when everything was
healed, I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> like wow, there's activity," he told the BBC from his home in
Finland.
>>>>>> "Right after that, if my eye hit the light, then I was able to 
>>>>>> see flashes, some activity which I hadn't had.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Then day after day when we started working with it, practising, 
>>>>>> then
I
>>>>>> started
>>>>>> seeing better and better all the time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Soon Mr Terho was able to read letters by training his mind to 
>>>>>> bring
the
>>>>>> component lines that comprised the letters together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The prototype implant has now been removed, but he has been 
>>>>>> promised
an
>>>>>> upgraded
>>>>>> version soon. He says it can make a difference to his life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "What I realised in those days was that it was such a great 
>>>>>> feeling
to
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> something," he says.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Even having a limited ability to see with the chip, it will be 
>>>>>> good
for
>>>>>> orientation, either walking somewhere or being able to see that
something
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> before you even if you don't see all the tiny details of the object."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Electrical impulses
>>>>>> The chip works by converting light that enters the eye into
electrical
>>>>>> impulses
>>>>>> which are fed into the optic nerve behind the eye.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is externally powered and in the initial study was connected 
>>>>>> to a
cable
>>>>>
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> protruded from the skin behind the ear to connect with a battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The team are now testing an upgrade in which the device is all
contained
>>>>>> beneath
>>>>>> the skin, with power delivered though the skin via an external 
>>>>>> device
that
>>>>>
>>>>>> clips
>>>>>> behind the ear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is by no means the only approach being taken by scientists 
>>>>>> to
try to
>>>>>> restore some visual ability to people with retinal dysfunction -
what's
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> retinal dystrophy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A rival chip by US-based Second Sight that sits on top of the 
>>>>>> retina
has
>>>>>> already
>>>>>> been implanted in patients, but that technique requires the 
>>>>>> patient
to be
>>>>>> fitted
>>>>>> with a camera fixed to a pair of glasses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charities gave the news of the latest work a cautious welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Head, of the British Retinitis Pigmentosa Society, said: 
>>>>>> "It's really fascinating work, but it doesn't restore vision. It 
>>>>>> rather gives
people
>>>>>> signals
>>>>>> which help them to interpret."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peoria Blind Center
>>>>>> www.peoriablindcenter.org
>>>>>> Here is the name of the group on facebook: PeoriArea Blind 
>>>>>> People's Center.  Your friends on facebook are going to have to 
>>>>>> get on their facebook account and search for the group's name to 
>>>>>> join, or to
see
>>>>>> what we are about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
>>>>>> Google
Groups
>>>>>> "venetian blind" group.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to venetian-blind at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>> venetian-blind+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/venetian-blind?hl=en.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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