[nfb-talk] Fw:Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopletodetectobjects'

Fri Nov 5 12:18:04 UTC 2010

Very good analogy.

Judy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw:Implanted chip 'allows 
blindpeopletodetectobjects'

> Brian,
>
> This technology, is paralleled to that of the cochlear implant for persons
> who are deaf.  There was an uproar by those who felt it would change their
> culture, while others felt it would better their life. Looks like similar
> arguments are taking place here, and the bottom line is that once this
> technology is improved to the point to where the FDA approves it, it is 
> just
> merely another option for those who wish to explore the sighted world to
> consider.
>
> JMO,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Miller
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:35 PM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows
> blindpeopletodetectobjects'
>
> I think one thing that is forgotten here is that not only is eyesight 
> useful
> from a functional perspective, it's also asthetically enriching, and even
> fun.  I am a perfectly well-adjusted blind person, but if I were offered
> 20/20 vision, or even something approximating it, I would grab the
> opportunity.  To me, it's like someone offering me a trip to Paris, or
> Tokyo, Fiji, or name  your location -- why not go?  It's fun!
>
> However, I'm hardly sitting around waiting for someone to make me this
> offer.  I believe we are at best many decades away from offering truly
> useful artificial eyesight that doesn't involve painful surgery, and a 
> major
> interruption of one's life for minimal gain.
>
> It's certainly also true that learning to live as a sighted person after
> being blind most of my life is no small thing.  It would be hugely
> transformative, and not always in a good way.
>
> Brian M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Wm. Ritchhart
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:49 PM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows
> blindpeopletodetectobjects'
>
> Ray,
>
> I believe you are just flat wrong.  Although being totally blind is no
> tragedy, I and most blind people I know would love to have useable vision.
> It has nothing to do with accepting blindness or being well-adjusted.  It
> has everything to do with the fact that most of the people in the world 
> are
> sighted and as a result they organize the world to be convenient for 
> sighted
> people.  There is nothing ill adjusted in wishing to be able to
> operate/function in a simpler manner.
>
>
> Thanks, William
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:09 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
> detectobjects'
>
> Well, John, obviously, you want it; and therefore, I conclude that you are
> not as well adjusted to your blindness as you really ought to be.  Since 
> you
> wanted a frank answer, there you go.  Perhaps, however, you didn't expect 
> it
> to be so direct.  Any person who has not, for what ever reason, well
> adjusted to their blindness will or might feel that something is lacking;
> and, therefore, will welcome the chip to cause them to see.  In my
> situation, however, sight would really not fix anything.  We tend to see
> ourselves as others see us; and, this means, whether we like it or not, 
> that
> if people generally think a blind person can't do anything, (and if that
> blind person not well adjusted to blindness only sarounds himself with
> people who think as he does), then, of course, he's going to believe the
> same about himself.  the very fact that anyone whom so ever could want 
> such
> a chip is a reflection of a lack of proper knowledge about blindness; and,
> to be frank, an acceptance of the eronious belief that we blind are
> inferior.
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:28 PM, John Heim wrote:
>
>> No, there's nothing wrong with being satisfied with being blind.  But
> that's not what you said. You said that if someone  is well adjusted, you
> don't see why they'd find this desirable.  This implies that if you want
> this device, you're not well adjusted. But rather than relying on
> implications, I asked you straight out.
>>
>> So let me ask you again, are you saying that anyone who wants this
>> device
> is not well adjusted to being blind?
>>
>> Hint: I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not be a judgmental,
>> self
> righteous SOB. I suggest you take it.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
> detectobjects'
>>
>>
>>> That is correct John.  I don't need or want a chip to make me see.  Why?
> Simple.  I'm happy with myself as a blind person.  Anything the matter 
> with
> that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:00 PM, John Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that if you are well
> adjusted to being blind, you wouldn't want a chip to allow you to see?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind peopleto
> detectobjects'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nope.  My brain's just fine like it is.
>>>>> Honestly, if one adjusts to blindness, why would one want such a 
>>>>> thing?
> IF not well adjusted, then I suppose one might want such a thing.  but, 
> what
> with the programs we have in place, one would think such a chip 
> undesirable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have no desires for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Jennifer Aberdeen
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:30 AM
>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to
>>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank God!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is great news!
>>>>>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> _______________________
>>>>>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness
> products!
>>>>>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get paid to read email!
>>>>>> http://www.sendearnings.com/?r=ref1487633
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Chrane"
> <kenneth.chrane at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: <CSDB-ALUMNI at googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> Cc: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to
>>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think about this Article?
>>>>>>> Ken Chrane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lela Behee
>>>>>>> To: venetian-blind at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:38 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though this may not be helpful for those of us who have
>>>>>>> prosthetic
> eyes
>>>>>>> and so have no retina, what a very exciting leap forward this is
>>>>>>> in technology!
>>>>>>> Praise our Lord!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 November 2010 Last updated at 20:49 ET Implanted chip 'allows
>>>>>>> blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>>> By Neil Bowdler Science reporter, BBC News
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Miikka Terho is given the task of reading letters which together
> misspell
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> own name
>>>>>>> A man with an inherited form of blindness has been able to
>>>>>>> identify letters and a clock face using a pioneering implant,
>>>>>>> researchers say.
>>>>>>> Miikka Terho, 46, from Finland, was fitted with an experimental
>>>>>>> chip behind his retina in Germany. Success was also reported in
>>>>>>> other patients.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The chip allows a patient to detect objects with their eyes,
>>>>>>> unlike a rival approach that uses an external camera.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Details of the work are in the journal Proceedings of the Royal
> Society B.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professor Eberhart Zrenner, of Germany's University of Tuebingen,
>>>>>>> and colleagues at private company Retina Implant AG initially
>>>>>>> tested their
> sub-retinal
>>>>>>> chip on
>>>>>>> 11 people.
>>>>>>> Some noticed no improvement as their condition was too advanced
>>>>>>> to
> benefit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the implant, but a majority were able to pick out bright objects,
> Prof
>>>>>>> Zrenner
>>>>>>> told the BBC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, it was only when the chip was placed further behind the
> retina,
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> central macular area in three people, that they achieved the best
> results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two of these had lost their vision because of the inherited
>>>>>>> condition retinitis pigmentosa, or RP, the other because of a
>>>>>>> related inherited condition called choroideraemia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RP leads to the progressive degeneration of cells in the eye's
> retina,
>>>>>>> resulting
>>>>>>> in night blindness, tunnel vision and then usually permanent
> blindness.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> symptoms can begin from early childhood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best results were achieved with Mr Terho, who was able to
> recognise
>>>>>>> cutlery
>>>>>>> and a mug on a table, a clock face and discern seven different
>>>>>>> shades
> of
>>>>>>> grey.
>>>>>>> He was also able to move around a room independently and approach
> people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In further tests he read large letters set out before him,
>>>>>>> including
> his
>>>>>>> name,
>>>>>>> which had been deliberately misspelled. He soon noticed it had
>>>>>>> been
> spelt
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> same way as the Finnish racing driver Mika Hakkinnen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Three or four days after the implantation, when everything was
> healed, I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> like wow, there's activity," he told the BBC from his home in
> Finland.
>>>>>>> "Right after that, if my eye hit the light, then I was able to
>>>>>>> see flashes, some activity which I hadn't had.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Then day after day when we started working with it, practising,
>>>>>>> then
> I
>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>> seeing better and better all the time."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Soon Mr Terho was able to read letters by training his mind to
>>>>>>> bring
> the
>>>>>>> component lines that comprised the letters together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The prototype implant has now been removed, but he has been
>>>>>>> promised
> an
>>>>>>> upgraded
>>>>>>> version soon. He says it can make a difference to his life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "What I realised in those days was that it was such a great
>>>>>>> feeling
> to
>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>> something," he says.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Even having a limited ability to see with the chip, it will be
>>>>>>> good
> for
>>>>>>> orientation, either walking somewhere or being able to see that
> something
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> before you even if you don't see all the tiny details of the 
>>>>>>> object."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Electrical impulses
>>>>>>> The chip works by converting light that enters the eye into
> electrical
>>>>>>> impulses
>>>>>>> which are fed into the optic nerve behind the eye.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is externally powered and in the initial study was connected
>>>>>>> to a
> cable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> protruded from the skin behind the ear to connect with a battery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The team are now testing an upgrade in which the device is all
> contained
>>>>>>> beneath
>>>>>>> the skin, with power delivered though the skin via an external
>>>>>>> device
> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> clips
>>>>>>> behind the ear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is by no means the only approach being taken by scientists
>>>>>>> to
> try to
>>>>>>> restore some visual ability to people with retinal dysfunction -
> what's
>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>> retinal dystrophy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A rival chip by US-based Second Sight that sits on top of the
>>>>>>> retina
> has
>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>> been implanted in patients, but that technique requires the
>>>>>>> patient
> to be
>>>>>>> fitted
>>>>>>> with a camera fixed to a pair of glasses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charities gave the news of the latest work a cautious welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Head, of the British Retinitis Pigmentosa Society, said:
>>>>>>> "It's really fascinating work, but it doesn't restore vision. It
>>>>>>> rather gives
> people
>>>>>>> signals
>>>>>>> which help them to interpret."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peoria Blind Center
>>>>>>> www.peoriablindcenter.org
>>>>>>> Here is the name of the group on facebook: PeoriArea Blind
>>>>>>> People's Center.  Your friends on facebook are going to have to
>>>>>>> get on their facebook account and search for the group's name to
>>>>>>> join, or to
> see
>>>>>>> what we are about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>> Google
> Groups
>>>>>>> "venetian blind" group.
>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to 
>>>>>>> venetian-blind at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>> venetian-blind+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/venetian-blind?hl=en.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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