[nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)

Thu Apr 14 18:47:29 UTC 2011

John,

This seems like an interesting approach to the problem.  I have a couple of questions, though.

In this case, wouldn't it be the web site that would be requesting a certificate, so wouldn't the site determine which type of certificate that would need to be 
submitted?  Also, while I understand the process for getting a certificate from the source you mentioned, aren't their other sources that would permit 
spammers to get certificates?  I will readily admit that this certificate process has always been a bit of a mystery to me.  Is this process expensive for a web 
site to implement, understanding that the generations of CAPTCHAs are ot free.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:06:28 -0500, John Heim wrote:

>Well, the whole point of a captcha is that is supposed to be something a 
>computer cannot recognize. If a computer recognizes it, then by definition, 
>it is not a captcha.

>Yes, I think it would be a very good idea for the NFB to work toward getting 
>web designers to enable different authorization protocols. For example, a 
>site could accept a digital certificate as authorization for a download. The 
>web site could automatically ask the browser for a certificate and if it has 
>one, the download could begin. This would all be transparent to the user 
>once they installed a certificate on their PC.

>And it doesn't have to cost the end user a penny. There is at least one 
>place to get free digital certificates. Its called cacert.org (see 
>www.cacert.org). To get an account, you have to be "assured" by 2 other 
>members or you have to have 2 notarized statements verifying your identity.

>If more places used this kind of authorization, we could create accounts for 
>people at NFB conventions and show them how to install their certificates.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)

>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>    Audio captchas are of no use to the deaf-blind . For God sakes if we 
>> can
>> develop the technology that allowed us to put a blind guy behind the wheel
>> of an automobile and drive it independently we should be able to find a 
>> way
>> to allow captchas to be recognized by screen readers while protecting Web
>> sites and such from the bad guys. The belief that the technology to do 
>> this
>> is not there doesn't wash with me.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>
>>
>> John, what's really bad, is if there are multiple blind people in a
>> church denomination, and their site's contact form, or church locater,
>> are inaccessible.
>> My organization's Website is like that.
>> They have an audio file that's supposed to play the captcha, but it won't
>> play.
>> I'll post the Website here.
>> www.upci.org
>> I've contacted their IT department, but they have done nothing about this.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/13/11, John Heim <john at johnheim.net> wrote:
>>> A few months ago, the Department of Justice said that the ADA applies to
>>> web
>>> sites. This is a big deal. Since the Department of Justice is responsible
>>> for enforcing laws like the ADA, if the Department of Justice says the 
>>> ADA
>>> applies to web sites, then it does.  A business would have to go to court
>>> to
>>> show that the DOJ overstepped its bounds in making that determination. 
>>> But
>>> the burden of proof would be on them. Well, anyway, the point is that
>>> CAPTCHAs are now illegal.
>>>
>>> IMO, this is one of the toughest issues we face. My own boss came to me
>>> yesterday wanting to put a captcha on our web site. I had to talk really
>>> long to get her to not do it. It was a really tough sell and I only got
>>> her
>>> to agree on a provisional basis. If an alternate solution I came up with
>>> doesn't work, she will probably insist on using the captcha. Her point is
>>> that the page we want to protect simply isn't visited very often by blind
>>> people. Its not worth the trouble to make it accessible.
>>>
>>> I've pointed out that its a matter of principle. I've even mentioned what
>>> a
>>> bitter thing it would be for me to install captcha software. I've pointed
>>> out our legal responsibilities. All this makes little to no difference.
>>> All
>>> that really matters is that captchas work. Honestly, I was sitting there
>>> thinking of trying to write software to break captchas and sending it to
>>> every spammer I can find.
>>>
>>> By the way, my boss is not a bad person by any means. She is very open
>>> minded. I just think that if you're not blind, you don't see what the
>>> problem is.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:25 PM
>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>> I've posted this on the Faith Talk list, and the Music list, but I'm
>>>> not having any success.
>>>> I've just thought of a question.
>>>> I'd like everyone's feedback.
>>>> How can we better influence the Webmasters of their sites, to make
>>>> more accessible contact forms?
>>>> How can they make them, where they can differentiate, between Jaws, and 
>>>> a
>>>> Robot?
>>>> I want them to make the captcha, where Jaws can catch it, and read it to
>>>> us.
>>>> What can we do?
>>>> Thanks for your ideas.
>>>> This is for all Websites.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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