[nfb-talk] audible walk signals (again)
Lisa Kidder
lisakid at peoplepc.com
Sun Apr 24 22:47:17 UTC 2011
I would to! hopefully a link can be posted on this list. Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:51:16 -0500
Subject: [nfb-talk] audible walk signals (again)
What data shows that audible walk signals drown out cars putting
blind
people at risk? And when did the NFB institute a studying
audible walk
signals? Can you document that? I specifically asked Mike Freeman
about that
and his response was that we didn't need studies.
Seriously, if you could provide a link to a study that showed
audible walk
signals put blind people at risk, I'd be very interested in
seeing it.
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
ChairmanGordon Gund
I just get so tired of the same damned unrelenting straw men
brought up
time and again, anywhere he can wedge these things in, whether
they make
sense or not. He's not been back two weeks and already we're all
illogical, unethical, and he's back to the straw man about how we
all want
blind people to beg for help from sighted people.
If I have learned one thing from politics, it's that certain
parties
always want to re-frame the argument so that either you agree
with them,
or you are against something that nobody ever would be. Either
I am
right, or you support cruelty to kittens! What do kittens have
to do with
anything?
So if you listen to John, if you oppose a particular
modification to the
US currency, you want blind people to be helpless and dependent,
despite
the fact that very few are helpless or dependent in this matter
today,
unless it be by choice. Money identifiers are now $100, and my
cell phone
can do it for the huge investment of TWO BUCKS. John and I
basically
agree that electronic identifiers are not a suitable solution to
the
problem, and yet I cannot support his baseless attacks (and
incessant)
incendiary claims against the NFB on even this issue. Despite
the NFB's
involvement in making the currency accessible, John's blanket
statement is
that we oppose doing this on every level, and in THREE YEARS (or
longer, I
think) he has yet to accept a single person's claim to the
contrary.
If you oppose chirping signals, you want blind people to die
crossing
streets. An outright lie. The NFB opposed these things because
the data
showed that they drowned out cars resulting in more blind people
at risk,
not less. Moreover, as of eight or nine years ago, the NFB has
been
actively developing a safe replacement for these squawking
monsters, and
the documented position of the organization is that we support
their
installation when they will benefit people. John's blanket
assertion is
that we oppose them universally. Our own resolutions to the
contrary are
not evidence, and nobody can prove otherwise to his
satisfaction.
If you oppose blanket mandates for descriptive video without any
consideration of what kind of descriptive video would be useful
or in what
context, then you are a monster who wants blind people to be
deprived,
uninformed, and miserable. The fact that descriptive video
doesn't
actually exist as any kind of standard like closed captioning
does and
that it's just shoehorned haphazardly into SAP channels, that
nobody has
actually determined what to describe or how, or that any effort
to mandate
this now can only serve to prevent a universal and standardized
solution
from emerging is irrelevant. Again we have the blanket
assertion that the
NFB opposes what is good and right, is evil for doing so, and
not one
single argument to the contrary is ever afforded even a first
thought, let
alone a second.
I could go on, at length, but the fact remains that nobody has
ever swayed
John Heim on a single issue, ever, in the history of his
presence on this
list. We are all just illogical, unethical, and he is
brutalized and
attacked from all sides, asking Dave Andrews to sanction anyone
who
bruises his poor, fragile ego. He can dish it out, in spades,
in the most
incendiary language possible, but he can't take his own
medicine.
And more importantly, he won't shut the hell up about any of it.
He just
continues to trash the NFB, and the good people of this list.
We have not
forgotten this, and it should be clear that John is immovable on
pretty
much anything, and that includes a fundamental belief that the
NFB is
harmful to the blind. So then, what is he doing here? And why
is he
permitted to remain, spewing this crap day after day?
Joseph
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 08:16:28PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
Too bad that troll doesn't fall off the face of the earth!
Gloria Whipple
Corresponding Secretary
Inland Empire chapter
nfb of WA
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 17:10
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
ChairmanGordon Gund
The troll returns to one of his favorite ACB-inspired arguments
about
how evil the NFB is. I say again, go away.
Joseph
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -0500, John Heim wrote:
Yet, the NFB would have us ask for help to identify our money.
On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
Hi Joseph,
Well done! I like what you had to say.
My prayers go out to you and I hope you get better and I hope you
are free
from cancer soon.
All my best,
Gloria Whipple
Corresponding Secretary
Inland Empire chapter
nfb of WA
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-
bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 19:01
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
ChairmanGordon Gund
Gloria,
I think what it boils down to is that language is a powerful
thing.
The words a person uses are less important than the intent behind
them, but from a choice of certain words over others we can infer
an
intent. I have been battling cancer. This implies something
about
me and my relationship to cancer. I have been living with it,
and I
don't want to be. In fact, I am fighting to make it gone,
because
cancer is a horrible thing.
Am I fighting blindness? Do I suffer from blindness? Am I
forced to
use alternative techniques? Well yes, I do suffer as a result of
blindness. Not because of blindness itself per se, but because
of
the reaction of others to it who are not blind (and a few who
are,
sadly).
The refusal to be pigeon-holed into this "sad existence" of
"suffering because of blindness" is precisely the kind of
supposed
"unethical" behavior the NFB engages in by spreading our
philosophy.
It is akin to those during the 60s arguing against the notion
that
they were afflicted somehow with being black. Blindness is a bad
thing only if you make it be so, and we refuse to make it so for
ourselves. Moreover, we refuse to allow others to force us into
that
role.
Those who would disparage our efforts to do so are not our
friends,
just as those who would have you look down upon a man of color
because his skin was darker than, say, mine is. Is he somehow
worse
of because of that? Is he lessened as a man or as a person?
Does he
deserve something less, or for that matter anything more, than
any
other person simply because of the color of his skin? Most today
would say out of hand that he should have the same opportunities
anyone would have. No more, but certainly no less!
The blind deserve the same equality that our more
sunburn-resistant
brothers demanded more than forty years ago. In just one
generation
we have gone from a person of color being denied the use of a
drinking fountain to electing him to the United States
presidency.
If there remains racial inequality, it cannot be because of the
color
of a person's skin anymore. Some individuals may yet harbor such
attitudes (and I recently observed some of those people in a
public
display, sadly), but society rejects such people as undesirable
when
they are exposed. (And believe me, we are exposing them all over
YouTube, since the local media won't even report it.)
But what about the blind? The same society who refuses to allow
a
black man to be treated as a second class citizen openly condones
it
when a blind man is treated likewise. Disability is one of only
two
acceptable areas of discrimination that remain in this country.
(The
other is so far removed from topical for this list that I won't
discuss it here, much to Dave's relief.)
We cannot continue to meekly request that we be treated as first
class citizens. It didn't work in the 1940s, and it hasn't
worked
yet. Only by refusing to be anything less will we finally
achieve
that. Unfortunately, that means getting a bit uppity over
language
that paints us into a corner, as it were. I'm not here to be
pitied
or someone's inspiration. I'm here because I've got a job to do,
and
within the National Federation of the Blind, that job is to
achieve
for myself and for all of us the basic rights of first class
citizenship afforded to anyone else in this country today,
regardless
of their skin color, sexual orientation, and a whole host of
other
things.
I don't expect any more, but I also won't accept any less.
Joseph
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:33:15AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
James,
Thanks for explaining what I wanted to say about this subject.
I am glad someone is on my side!
Gloria Whipple
Corresponding Secretary
Inland Empire chapter
nfb of WA
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladyglo
ria%40web
ba
nd.com
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40
johnheim.
net
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/carter.
tjoseph%40
gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladyglo
ria%40webba
nd.com
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/carter.
tjoseph%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40
johnheim.net
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nfb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/lisakid
%40peoplepc.com
More information about the nFB-Talk
mailing list