[nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal reportfrom ChairmanGordon Gund

John Heim john at johnheim.net
Tue Apr 26 15:32:48 UTC 2011


No, I don't think there is anybody more stubborn than me.  There may be some 
people as stubborn but not more stubborn.

But I'll admit that I think I have a more open mind on the issues we have 
been discussing than many people on this list. But I will also admit that 
that's just my subjective opinion.

PS: Lets take this to private email.  On most lists, when things get really 
hot like this, the moderator bans the topic and tells people to take it to 
private email. I know from past experience that that's not the culture on 
this list. People get really angry when you send them private email. But the 
list would work a lot better if that changed. I don't know why it works but 
it does.  People are just much more willing to back down in private email. 
They're much more likely to just press the DEL key.

----- Original Message ----- 
From:
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal reportfrom 
ChairmanGordon Gund


> Hay John,
>
> I know I am stubborn, can't you admit you are just as stubborn?
>
> Oh, I  forgot, you are so perfect!?!
>
> Hahaha!
>
>
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of John Heim
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 07:38
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal reportfrom
> ChairmanGordon Gund
>
> Well, the point is that its not me that is the stubborn one here. Its you.
>
> What would it take to get you to change your mind, Mike? You or Joseph or
> Gloria or Constance?  It could hardly be possible for it to be more clear
> that the NFB was wrong on the issue of currency being discrimatory. Yet, 
> you
>
> are not willing to budge even the slightest bit on that issue.
>
> The NFB argued that the ACB lawsuit was likely to fail. It didn't. Are you
> willing to admit you were wrong about that? The NFB called the ACB lawsuit 
> a
>
> "publicity stunt". Are you willing to admit that was a mistake?The 21st
> Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act has restored the
> requirements for a certain number of hours of DVS on the four major 
> networks
>
> each week. So an act of Congress has said that the NFB was wrong on that
> issue. Are you willing to concede that one?
>
> The point is that it is truely unfair for people to criticize me for
> continuing to harp on these issues when the people on this list and the 
> NFB
> itself is so very unwilling to budge even the slightest bit on any of 
> these
> issues.  TJC keeps criticizing me for saying that I have all the facts on 
> my
>
> side. Yet, what else am I to do when a federal judge, who' job is to 
> decide
> things like discrimination listens carefully to days and days of testimony
> by the experts in the field, decides the NFB is wrong, and yet, you people
> and the NFB itself, still insists its right?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal reportfrom
> ChairmanGordon Gund
>
>
>> John:
>>
>> I am going to forebear from entering the discussion further except to say
>> that just because Judge Roberts ruled on a case, that doesn't make it
>> "right" -- whatever that might mean.  It *does* make it the law of the
>> land
>> -- at least in that Federal district.  NFB can disagree with the decision
>> as
>> can any individual.  But we acknowledge that the decision stands and it
>> wasn't worth taking our opposition all the way through the appellate
>> process.  In fact, we (and I suppose ACB also) are working with the 
>> Bureau
>> of Printing and Engraving to come up with viable tactily-identifiable
>> currency.  But we would have done this anyway; as Steve has told you, we
>> said we'd work with the government on the issue by resolution prior to 
>> the
>> ACB lawsuit.  What we protested was the notion that nonexistence of
>> tactile
>> currency was discriminatory treatment of the blind.  You disagree with 
>> our
>> contention.  That's OK.  But the fact that you disagree with us or that a
>> Federal judge ruled on the matter doesn't invalidate our position which 
>> is
>> that tactile currency may be nice but its absence is not discriminatory
>> treatment of the blind.  That opinion doesn't hold water, at least in the
>> DC
>> circuit, legally-speaking.  Okay;we go on.
>>
>> I'll end it there and get on to other things.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of John Heim
>> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:55 AM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>> ChairmanGordon Gund
>>
>> Well, you've never actually changed your mind on anything either, have 
>> you
>> Joseph? In my opinion, it is truely ironic for you to accuse me of
>> ignoring
>> facts that don't agree with my point of view. Lets examine this 
>> particular
>> point for a second...
>>
>> In 2006, Judge James Robertson, in a Federal District Court, decided that
>> the currency of the United States discriminates against the blind.  Now,
>> this is a federal judge, a lawyer, trained to determine exactly this kind
>> of
>> legal question, who after examining all the facts presented over a series
>> of
>> weeks by both sides, said that our money discriminates against the blind.
>>
>> Now, are you willing to acknowledge that the ACB was right? That I was
>> right? That our money does discriminate against the blind? Or are you
>> going
>> to continue to toe the NFB line?
>>
>> Documentation on Judge Robertson's decision:
>> http://www.acb.org/press061129.html
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>> ChairmanGordon Gund
>>
>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> I suggest you read the archives of this listserve.  One person
>>> continues to discuss the same issues, over and over again.  He is not
>>> satisfied with the answers he gets (and he ignores any information
>>> that does not fit his anti-Federationist agenda).
>>>
>>> Removing him is not "censorship", it's troll-hunting.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 02:05:14AM +0000, S Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>If the talk board is constantly being censored by a few people, can
>>>>the AFB be solicited to have an uncensored board? If everybody agreed
>>>>on everything, we wouldn't need a Talk board, we could call it the
>>>>Agree Board! PEN discussion is the well spring of ideas and solutions.
>>>>No one here, that I've read could have gotten this far if they had
>>>>chosen isolation or denied improvements in technology. If you had, you
>>>>would not be on the Net.
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>SRBaker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: john at johnheim.net
>>>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:45:54 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>>>> ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>>
>>>>> Constance, do you have an open mind on this issue? Could anything I
>>>>> say convince you that I am arguing in good faith? I don't believe so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some facts:
>>>>> 1. I have never reacted in anger to anything said about me on this
>>>>> list 2. I have never instulted anyone on this list 3. I just took 3
>>>>> months where I read but did not respond to the messages on this
>>>>> list.
>>>>> 4. I provide links and documentation for the things I say on this 
>>>>> list.
>>>>> 5. Its not true that I never agree with anything the NFB does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its true that I have a lot of problems with the policies of the NFB
>>>>> and those positions have created a great deal of controversy on this
>> list.
>>>>> That's one of the reasons you think I hever have anything good to
>>>>> say about the NFB, the things we agree on are not controversial.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, tell me, what can I do to convince you that I'm arguing
>>>>> in good faith?
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:08 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>>>> ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >I know I will probably get kicked off of the list for this, but so
>>>>> >be it.
>>>>> >I have an idea. I really believe that John is trying to keep
>>>>> >himself in the limelight and is in need of attention. Maybe if we
>>>>> >totally ignore his comments, don't give him any attnetion
>>>>> >whatsoever, he will do us all a favor and go away. Others have done
>>>>> >this in the past and they went away also. Just keep hitting the
>>>>> >delete key as I have been doing. I am just tired of reading this
>>>>> >stuff.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I do hope that everyone had a lovely Easter and too much to eat. I
>>>>> > know we certainly did and we haven't had dessert yet.
>>>>> > At 05:01 PM 4/24/2011, you wrote:
>>>>> >>For the record, I never said any of the following things:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>1. you all want blind people to beg for help from sighted people
>>>>> >>2. If you oppose a particular modification to the US currency, you
>>>>> >>want blind people to be helpless and dependent, .
>>>>> >>3. John's blanket statement is that we oppose doing this
>>>>> >>]accessible money] on every level, 4. If you oppose chirping
>>>>> >>signals, you want blind people to die crossing streets 5. John's
>>>>> >>blanket assertion is that we oppose them [audible walk signals]
>>>>> >>universally
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>I could probably keep going but I think that's enough. I notice,
>>>>> >>Joseph, that you never quote me directly. You never respond to
>>>>> >>what I actually say. This current tirade is the result of a
>>>>> >>statement I made that the NFB has said that instead of adding
>>>>> >>tactile markings to our money, blind people should get sighted
>>>>> >>assistance to identify their money. That's a fact. Dr. Maurer said
>>>>> >>exactly that in his testimony before Congress.
>>>>> >>From
>>>>> >>that *factual* statement on my part, you accuse me of saying that
>>>>> >>the NFB wants all blind people to be dependent. Well, I simply
>>>>> >>didn't say anything of the sort.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>I can only hope that more rational, fairer memvers of this list
>>>>> >>will see how unfair you are being. You keep accusing me of being
>>>>> >>unwilling to acknowledge that the NFB is in favor of walk signals
>>>>> >>under some circumstances. Yet I have indeed acknowledged that many
>>>>> >>times. So continuing to accuse me of that is simply dishonest.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Likewise, I never said the NFB is totally opposed to accessible
>>>>> >>money.
>>>>> >>You're accusing me of being too bullheaded to retract a statement
>>>>> >>I never even made. Its insane.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>For the record, I don't think the NFB is totally against audible
>>>>> >>walk signals under all circumstances. And I know the NFB has
>>>>> >>expressed support for accessible money at times. I'd really
>>>>> >>appreciate if you'd stop accusing me of saying otherwise.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>>>>> >><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> >>Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:06 AM
>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>>>> >>ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>I just get so tired of the same damned unrelenting straw men
>>>>> >>>brought up time and again, anywhere he can wedge these things in,
>>>>> >>>whether they make sense or not. He's not been back two weeks and
>>>>> >>>already we're all illogical, unethical, and he's back to the
>>>>> >>>straw man about how we all want blind people to beg for help from
>>>>> >>>sighted people.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If I have learned one thing from politics, it's that certain
>>>>> >>>parties always want to re-frame the argument so that either you
>>>>> >>>agree with them, or you are against something that nobody ever
>>>>> >>>would be. Either I am right, or you support cruelty to kittens!
>>>>> >>>What do kittens have to do with anything?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>So if you listen to John, if you oppose a particular modification
>>>>> >>>to the US currency, you want blind people to be helpless and
>>>>> >>>dependent, despite the fact that very few are helpless or
>>>>> >>>dependent in this matter today, unless it be by choice. Money
>>>>> >>>identifiers are now $100, and my cell phone can do it for the
>>>>> >>>huge investment of TWO BUCKS. John and I basically agree that
>>>>> >>>electronic identifiers are not a suitable solution to the
>>>>> >>>problem, and yet I cannot support his baseless attacks (and
>>>>> >>>incessant) incendiary claims against the NFB on even this issue.
>>>>> >>>Despite
>>>>> >>>the NFB's involvement in making the currency accessible, John's
>>>>> >>>blanket statement is that we oppose doing this on every level,
>>>>> >>>and in THREE YEARS (or longer, I think) he has yet to accept a
>>>>> >>>single person's claim to the contrary.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If you oppose chirping signals, you want blind people to die
>>>>> >>>crossing streets. An outright lie. The NFB opposed these things
>>>>> >>>because the data showed that they drowned out cars resulting in
>>>>> >>>more blind people at risk, not less. Moreover, as of eight or
>>>>> >>>nine years ago, the NFB has been actively developing a safe
>>>>> >>>replacement for these squawking monsters, and the documented
>>>>> >>>position of the organization is that we support their
>>>>> >>>installation when they will benefit people. John's blanket
>>>>> >>>assertion is that we oppose them universally. Our own resolutions
>>>>> >>>to the contrary are not evidence, and nobody can prove otherwise
>>>>> >>>to his satisfaction.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If you oppose blanket mandates for descriptive video without any
>>>>> >>>consideration of what kind of descriptive video would be useful
>>>>> >>>or in what context, then you are a monster who wants blind people
>>>>> >>>to be deprived, uninformed, and miserable. The fact that
>>>>> >>>descriptive video doesn't actually exist as any kind of standard
>>>>> >>>like closed captioning does and that it's just shoehorned
>>>>> >>>haphazardly into SAP channels, that nobody has actually
>>>>> >>>determined what to describe or how, or that any effort to mandate
>>>>> >>>this now can only serve to prevent a universal and standardized
>>>>> >>>solution from emerging is irrelevant. Again we have the blanket
>>>>> >>>assertion that the NFB opposes what is good and right, is evil
>>>>> >>>for doing so, and not one single argument to the contrary is ever
>>>>> >>>afforded even a first thought, let alone a second.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>I could go on, at length, but the fact remains that nobody has
>>>>> >>>ever swayed John Heim on a single issue, ever, in the history of
>>>>> >>>his presence on this list. We are all just illogical, unethical,
>>>>> >>>and he is brutalized and attacked from all sides, asking Dave
>>>>> >>>Andrews to sanction anyone who bruises his poor, fragile ego. He
>>>>> >>>can dish it out, in spades, in the most incendiary language
>>>>> >>>possible, but he can't take his own medicine.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>And more importantly, he won't shut the hell up about any of it.
>>>>> >>>He just continues to trash the NFB, and the good people of this
>>>>> >>>list. We have not forgotten this, and it should be clear that
>>>>> >>>John is immovable on pretty much anything, and that includes a
>>>>> >>>fundamental belief that the NFB is harmful to the blind. So then,
>>>>> >>>what is he doing here? And why is he permitted to remain, spewing
>>>>> >>>this crap day after day?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Joseph
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 08:16:28PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>> >>>>Too bad that troll doesn't fall off the face of the earth!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>> >>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>> >>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>> >>>>nfb of WA
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> >>>>On
>>>>> >>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>>> >>>>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 17:10
>>>>> >>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report
>>>>> >>>>from ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>The troll returns to one of his favorite ACB-inspired arguments
>>>>> >>>>about how evil the NFB is. I say again, go away.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>Joseph
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -0500, John Heim wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>Yet, the NFB would have us ask for help to identify our money.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Hi Joseph,
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Well done! I like what you had to say.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>My prayers go out to you and I hope you get better and I hope
>>>>> >>>>>>you are free from cancer soon.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>All my best,
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>> >>>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>> >>>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb of WA
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-
>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> >>>>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>>> >>>>>>Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 19:01
>>>>> >>>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report
>>>>> >>>>>>from ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Gloria,
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>I think what it boils down to is that language is a powerful
>>>>> >>>>>>thing.
>>>>> >>>>>>The words a person uses are less important than the intent
>>>>> >>>>>>behind them, but from a choice of certain words over others we
>>>>> >>>>>>can infer an intent. I have been battling cancer. This implies
>>>>> >>>>>>something about me and my relationship to cancer. I have been
>>>>> >>>>>>living with it, and I don't want to be. In fact, I am fighting
>>>>> >>>>>>to make it gone, because cancer is a horrible thing.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Am I fighting blindness? Do I suffer from blindness? Am I
>>>>> >>>>>>forced to use alternative techniques? Well yes, I do suffer as
>>>>> >>>>>>a result of blindness. Not because of blindness itself per se,
>>>>> >>>>>>but because of the reaction of others to it who are not blind
>>>>> >>>>>>(and a few who are, sadly).
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>The refusal to be pigeon-holed into this "sad existence" of
>>>>> >>>>>>"suffering because of blindness" is precisely the kind of
>>>>> >>>>>>supposed "unethical" behavior the NFB engages in by spreading
>>>>> >>>>>>our philosophy.
>>>>> >>>>>>It is akin to those during the 60s arguing against the notion
>>>>> >>>>>>that they were afflicted somehow with being black. Blindness
>>>>> >>>>>>is a bad thing only if you make it be so, and we refuse to
>>>>> >>>>>>make it so for ourselves. Moreover, we refuse to allow others
>>>>> >>>>>>to force us into that role.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Those who would disparage our efforts to do so are not our
>>>>> >>>>>>friends, just as those who would have you look down upon a man
>>>>> >>>>>>of color because his skin was darker than, say, mine is. Is he
>>>>> >>>>>>somehow worse of because of that? Is he lessened as a man or
>>>>> >>>>>>as a person? Does he deserve something less, or for that
>>>>> >>>>>>matter anything more, than any other person simply because of
>>>>> >>>>>>the color of his skin? Most today would say out of hand that
>>>>> >>>>>>he should have the same opportunities anyone would have. No
>>>>> >>>>>>more, but certainly no less!
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>The blind deserve the same equality that our more
>>>>> >>>>>>sunburn-resistant brothers demanded more than forty years ago.
>>>>> >>>>>>In just one generation we have gone from a person of color
>>>>> >>>>>>being denied the use of a drinking fountain to electing him to
>>>>> >>>>>>the United States presidency.
>>>>> >>>>>>If there remains racial inequality, it cannot be because of
>>>>> >>>>>>the color of a person's skin anymore. Some individuals may yet
>>>>> >>>>>>harbor such attitudes (and I recently observed some of those
>>>>> >>>>>>people in a public display, sadly), but society rejects such
>>>>> >>>>>>people as undesirable when they are exposed. (And believe me,
>>>>> >>>>>>we are exposing them all over YouTube, since the local media
>>>>> >>>>>>won't even report it.)
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>But what about the blind? The same society who refuses to
>>>>> >>>>>>allow a black man to be treated as a second class citizen
>>>>> >>>>>>openly condones it when a blind man is treated likewise.
>>>>> >>>>>>Disability is one of only two acceptable areas of
>>>>> >>>>>>discrimination that remain in this country.
>>>>> >>>>>>(The
>>>>> >>>>>>other is so far removed from topical for this list that I
>>>>> >>>>>>won't discuss it here, much to Dave's relief.)
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>We cannot continue to meekly request that we be treated as
>>>>> >>>>>>first class citizens. It didn't work in the 1940s, and it
>>>>> >>>>>>hasn't worked yet. Only by refusing to be anything less will
>>>>> >>>>>>we finally achieve that. Unfortunately, that means getting a
>>>>> >>>>>>bit uppity over language that paints us into a corner, as it
>>>>> >>>>>>were. I'm not here to be pitied or someone's inspiration. I'm
>>>>> >>>>>>here because I've got a job to do, and within the National
>>>>> >>>>>>Federation of the Blind, that job is to achieve for myself and
>>>>> >>>>>>for all of us the basic rights of first class citizenship
>>>>> >>>>>>afforded to anyone else in this country today, regardless of
>>>>> >>>>>>their skin color, sexual orientation, and a whole host of
>>>>> >>>>>>other things.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>I don't expect any more, but I also won't accept any less.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Joseph
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:33:15AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>James,
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks for explaining what I wanted to say about this subject.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>I am glad someone is on my side!
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>> >>>>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>> >>>>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>> >>>>>>>nfb of WA
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >>>>>>info for
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/lady
>>>>> >>>>>>gloria%40web
>>>>> >>>>ba
>>>>> >>>>>>nd.com
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >>>>>>info for nfb-talk:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40john
> h
>> eim.
>>>>> >>>>net
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >>>>>info for
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/carte
>>>>> >>>>>r.tjoseph%40
>>>>> >>>>gmail.com
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >>>>info for
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladygl
>>>>> >>>>oria%40webba
>>>>> >>>>nd.com
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> >>>>info for
>>>>> >>>>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/carter
>>>>> >>>>.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >>>for
>>>>> >>>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40
>>>>> >>>johnheim.net
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >>for
>>>>> >>nfb-talk:
>>>>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/satin-be
>>>>> >>ar%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> > for
>>>>> > nfb-talk:
>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40j
>>>>> > ohnheim.net
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> nfb-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/srbaker12%
>>>>> 40hotmail.com
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>>>
>>
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40johnheim.ne
> t
>>
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