[nfb-talk] freedom of speech

[H. Field]

John,
You act as though you are doing us all a favour by posting your ideas 
and debating with us. While there are always people who aren't much into 
trading in the market place of ideas, most of us who are subscribed to 
these lists are here because we value the passtime. However, we don't 
sign up to an NFB list to sit around and argue ad nausium with someone 
who clearly disagrees with our positions. Quite frankly John, I'm not 
interested in you exercising your perceived right of freedom of speech 
on an NFB list. Surely you are aware that your ideas are neither 
original nor new. And, indeed, even if they had been, they have been 
stated and restated so often for so long that they're old hat by now. 
Really. Please John. Your not saying anything that we haven't heard 
before. Why is it so difficult for you to cept that we disagree. At some 
point in time surely you can accept that we aren't going to change our 
minds and, furthermore, that we aren't interested in you trying to help 
us assess whether our ideas, opinions and views are fair and rational. 
It doesn't matter to us that you believe you must defend the rest of the 
blind against our views or the organization's application of our 
philosophy. And as to the suggested benefits that your constant 
disagreeing will bring us? Discomfort? Please John, your thoughts are 
just plain not that original or startling. You don't think anybody has 
brought up those same points in our own chapters or over lunch with one 
another? If you believe that we are wrong then please, by all means, 
believe it to your heart's content. but when will you accept our equally 
valid right to be wrong if we choose. Most of us on this list simply 
don't care if you think we're wrong or that the NFB positions are wrong 
John. We truly don't care! Sure, you have a right to say so and I don't 
at all begrudge you the opportunity to express your opinions and beliefs 
on the NFB list. But why will you not accept that there comes a time 
when it is reasonable for you to stop. People have not only told you 
that they disagree they've also told you that they don't intend to 
change their minds. While you may have a right to free speech, which you 
do only within reason on a list such as this, when does your exercising 
of this right cross the line and impinge on my right to be subscribed to 
a list where we happily share the same views in peace? Basically John, 
it's boring and annoying. It's not upsetting. It doesn't challenge my 
views. It doesn't make me question my opinions and it doesn't make me 
decide that the NFB was wrong on the positions and the strategies it 
took and continues to take. It's just tiresome. Annoying. Pointless. 
Silly. Surely if you truly want to change minds, and not just argue, 
surely If you really do want to change minds you have chosen the very 
worst venue for that outcome. Only extremely committed people take the 
time to post, read and respond on lists like this. No wonder people are 
suspicious of your motives. How can such an obviously intelligent person 
continue on such a pointless mission with such disregard for the facts? 
In a nutshell John, we aren't convinced and nothing you've said has 
convinced us. As you're not saying anything new, why continue, we're 
obviously not going to be convinced.

John, I don't like you or dislike you, I don't know you well enough to 
do either. I don't care if you consider yourself to believe in the 
philosophy of the NFB. It doesn't really make any difference what you 
think about NFB policy, conduct or member behaviour. None of it is going 
to be effected by your posts on an e-mail list. However, I do object to 
you thinking that an NFB list is the perfect place for you to try and 
conduct a one-man battle to convert list members away from their chosen 
views. I'm pleased that Dave hasn't banned you but I believe that you 
are badly mistaken if you think that you have a right to debate the same 
topics over and over for years with people who don't want to hear what 
you have to say more than a few times. You're really going overboard if 
you think that people saying they don't want to hear more of the same 
thing over and over again is denial of your rights to free speech. It 
must be hard for you to accept John because you have an intellect and 
are competent at expressing your beliefs and opinions and you appear to 
want to do so in public. but John, we just don't care what you have to 
say on the same old topics again and again. There's nothing new to be 
said. and we disagree with you and don't want to change out minds. When 
does our right not to have our time wasted get acknowledged? And don't 
give me the glib nonsense about the delete key. I read your posts John. 
I respect that you have ideas and I like reading your take on various 
things that come up from time to time. However, there comes a time when 
enough is enough. John. It's boring to us. It's not challenging, or 
clarifying or confronting or discomforting. It's not new John so how 
could it be any of those things. It's just boring. as for change coming 
about, nobody wants the change to come about except you. You appear to 
have chosen the wrong venue. Please consider our rights as well. Can you 
not accept that we just don't want to hear it, no matter how well you 
articulate the arguments? John, we're not listening any more. I hope 
I've said the same thing in enough different ways for you to apprehend 
what I'm saying on all the levels on which I'm saying it.

Regards,

Heather Field

On 4/26/2011 10:23 AM, John Heim wrote:
> It seems to me that some people on this list are a little unclear on 
> the concept of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech doesn't apply only 
> when we agree with the speaker. It isn't for only when we like the 
> person and agree with him. In fact, the opposite is more accurate.
>
> The whole point of freedom of speech is that sometimes people will be 
> confronted with ideas that make them uncomfortable. That's how change 
> gets started. Nothing would ever change if people weren't occasionally 
> confronted with ideas contrary to their current beliefs. Sometimes 
> that makes people uncomfortable. But that's sad. People should welcome 
> the expression of ideas that differ from their own. Even if you end up 
> continuing to disagree with those ideas, you will form a more clear 
> idea of why. It will help you understand your own beliefs that much 
> better.
>
> As Americans, we should trust in the power of truth. When someone 
> expresses an idea you disagree with, you should trust that others will 
> see as you do that the idea has no merit. When someone expresses an 
> idea you disagree with, its an opportunity to prove that your ideas 
> are better. Get that? - its an opportunity.
>
> I'm not denying that some people will never change their minds no 
> matter what level of proof they are confronted with. You may not 
> change my mind, or Mike Freeman's, or T. Joseph Carter's. But you 
> might change everybody else's. You need to trust in the strength of 
> your ideas. The truth has power. If your ideas can't carry the day. If 
> they can't win out, isn't it better to know that?
>
>
>
>
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