[nfb-talk] Convention

Fri Aug 5 15:12:26 UTC 2011

agreed.  But even Dr. Jernigan walked with people at times.  It was when he 
chose to do so.  I have seen to often that people will do things just 
because they need to prove how independent they are.  And I have to wonder 
if sometimes we will undertake an action just so we can feel momentarily 
superior to someone who cannot do that yet.  Normally I can cut my own meat 
without much problems.  However, right now, I am still recovering from a 
long illness in which I was in bed for several months and had two valves 
replaced replaced in my heart.  And right now, I still do not have the 
strength to cut my own meat.  But there is no way someone is going to act 
superior to me or put me down if I ask to have the chef cut it for me.  I 
still view this as exercising some independence though because I am making 
the decision as to what needs to be done, and how it is done.  Also, I know 
what I can do under normal circumstances and what I cannot.  I am at a point 
where I do not have to prove anything to anyone.  I do not mean to sound 
snobbish about that.  I'm also smart enough to know that there is more for 
me to still learn than I could ever learn in a lifetime.  And I would hate 
to see someone miss out on the fun of convention just because he or she 
cannot cut his or her own meat.  There's just so much more out there. 
Anyway, thanks for letting me give some rambling and disjointed thoughts.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention

> Loren,
>
> I still find myself getting a little uneasy with how we carry out 
> accepting people where they are even though I agree that we need to do 
> that.  I think
> independence is not just accepting the status quo but it is something we 
> have to strive for.  It doesn't mean that we have to constantly beat up on 
> ourselves
> because we are not as independent as someone else in terms of not 
> requiring help, for example, but it also sometimes means looking at what 
> we do and
> how we might do it more independently.  It can be easy for any of us to 
> decide that a given problem isn't our fault, it is everybody else's fault 
> for not
> accepting us as we are.  Sometimes people are quick to judge, but 
> sometimes we sell ourselves short.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:18:10 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
>
>>Yes, there may be another disability involved.  And it also may be that 
>>the
>>person is older.  Whatever the reason, it happens.
>
>>Anyway, we need to meet people where they are.  And let them decide how to
>>handle things.  We can show them ways to handle various situations.  And
>>maybe a good discussion would be exactly what is independence anyway?
>
>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 10:45 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>
>
>>> We need to be understanding that blind people and our members in
>>> particularly come to conventions with many different backgrounds and
>>> levels of skills so
>>> I agree with your point.  Our role should be to help people achieve
>>> independence, not to require that independence be already achieved 
>>> before
>>> attending a
>>> convention.  I do question your statement that sighted people don't cut
>>> their own meat, though.  I've ever seen a sighted person not cut their 
>>> own
>>> meat
>>> unless there was another disability involved.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:00:03 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not surprised at all but finding those who do not cut their own meat
>>>>at
>>>>nfb conventions.  Many sighted do not cut their own these days. And
>>>>cutting
>>>>your own meat does nothing to prove you are independent.  We all have
>>>>differing abilities.  And as long as we are calling the shots, then who 
>>>>is
>>>>to say who is independent and who is not?
>>>
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:50 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> Great points from personal experience! But given the philosophy of
>>>>> independence, I'm kind of surprised you've seen individuals who need
>>>>> help
>>>>> cutting meat.  I would think those people would be embarrassed to be 
>>>>> at
>>>>> a
>>>>> NFB convention with many independent blind people. I've certainly seen
>>>>> many different types of people with a wide range of interests at
>>>>> conventions. I have been to mainly state ones but one part of a 
>>>>> national
>>>>> one.  Yes there is certainly diversity.
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:41 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>>>>
>>>>> John:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been to quite a number of NFb conventions, and I will say that
>>>>> I have observed a wide range of persons and abilities.  I have seen
>>>>> some great travelers, and I have seen people who bring a sighted
>>>>> parent or friend because they don't travel alone.  I have seen people
>>>>> who went through buffet lines with little or no assistance, and I
>>>>> have had dinner with people who requested that the waiter or waitress
>>>>> cut their meat.  I suspect that the range of people and abilities is
>>>>> much greater than you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:13 PM 8/2/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>Well, I presume you're asking how I know that those who attend the
>>>>>>conventions are the best of the best. And I'll admit its just
>>>>>>speculation.
>>>>>>But it just stands to reason. Of course, it wouldn't be a perfect
>>>>>>correllation either.  But I'm sure the majority of people at the NFB
>>>>>>conventions are those who have it together (for lack of a better 
>>>>>>term).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I once got into a debate with someone from the ACB who questioned the
>>>>>>70%
>>>>>>unemployment figure for blind people. He had done  a survey of ACB
>>>>>>members
>>>>>>and found that the unemployment rate was more like 30 - 40%. But I
>>>>>>pointed
>>>>>>out that ACB members probably aren't average blind people. 30 - 40% of
>>>>>>ACB
>>>>>>members might be unemployed but that doesn't mean that 30 - 40% of all
>>>>>>blind people are unemployed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>NFB members probably aren't average either, especially those who 
>>>>>>attend
>>>>>>conventions. So you probably couldn't get an accurate glimpse into the
>>>>>>lives of the average blind person even if you expanded the voting to
>>>>>>those
>>>>>>not attending the convention. But it would help, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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