[nfb-talk] Convention

Rovig, Lorraine LRovig at nfb.org
Fri Aug 5 20:24:45 UTC 2011 

Gentlemen, your discussion on cutting meat reminds me of the time I was surprised to hear Dr. Kenneth Jernigan speak of not cutting his own meat.

Back when I lived in Iowa, I heard Dr. Jernigan speak to an audience about the early days of the NFB, when he and Dr. tenBroek were traveling to different states to speak to any group of blind people they could reach to recruit members or to speak to a state convention of the early NFB affiliates.  He said he and Chick would stay at hotels, eat in the hotel dining rooms, and routinely ask the waiter to have their meat cut in the kitchen.  Then he said, it was years later that they met a blind man who cut his own meat, which they did themselves after that.  At the time I heard him speak, Dr. Jernigan used the story to educate his audience to the fact that the idea of what blindness made necessary was changing in our lifetime and blind people were teaching blind people to make it happen.  As I recall he also reminded people that either way they ate their dinner.  

Loren, I am sorry to hear you have been in such a long recovery.  I send you my good wishes for recovering your strength in full!  I hope you can enjoy your dinners, as Dr. Jernigan surely did enjoy his steaks, whoever cuts the meat.

Lorraine Rovig

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 3:28 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention

Loren,

As you have described, you are dealing with a serious health situation and you have a clear reason why you might choose to have your meat cut.  In 
addition, as I have tried to express, there may well be situations where a blind person who had not mastered cutting meet yet may choose to have their meat 
cut rather than tackling a task in public with which they are not yet comfortable.  What sometimes troubles me, though, is when people allow the impression 
to be given that they cannot do a given task because of being blind when there are other disabilities or circumstances involved.  I also get a little troubled 
when I see people not learn to do something they might be capable of learning because they just don't want to make the effort and then use the "I don't 
have to prove anything to anybody" has a justification.  I don't believe we need to all be equally good at everything, that is just not possible.  We also have 
to be aware that each of us has our own set of circumstances.  Still, there is a big difference between walking with someone as did Dr. Jernigan at times 
because one has decided it is more efficient in a given situation, and walking with someone because one has to.  We sometimes walk a fine line between 
pushing each other to do just a little more and being critical of each other, and it is good for us to examine the difference from time to time.  However, don't 
overlook the fact that one might choose to try to do something not to be superior to someone else but to reinforce one's own self-confidence.  There are 
times when I do something like take a bus instead of a taxi or walk instead of taking a bus not to lord it over someone else but to remind myself that I can do 
it.  We live in a society that doesn't understand our capabilities, so it is easy to loose one's self-confidence.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 10:12:26 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:

>agreed.  But even Dr. Jernigan walked with people at times.  It was when he 
>chose to do so.  I have seen to often that people will do things just 
>because they need to prove how independent they are.  And I have to wonder 
>if sometimes we will undertake an action just so we can feel momentarily 
>superior to someone who cannot do that yet.  Normally I can cut my own meat 
>without much problems.  However, right now, I am still recovering from a 
>long illness in which I was in bed for several months and had two valves 
>replaced replaced in my heart.  And right now, I still do not have the 
>strength to cut my own meat.  But there is no way someone is going to act 
>superior to me or put me down if I ask to have the chef cut it for me.  I 
>still view this as exercising some independence though because I am making 
>the decision as to what needs to be done, and how it is done.  Also, I know 
>what I can do under normal circumstances and what I cannot.  I am at a point 
>where I do not have to prove anything to anyone.  I do not mean to sound 
>snobbish about that.  I'm also smart enough to know that there is more for 
>me to still learn than I could ever learn in a lifetime.  And I would hate 
>to see someone miss out on the fun of convention just because he or she 
>cannot cut his or her own meat.  There's just so much more out there. 
>Anyway, thanks for letting me give some rambling and disjointed thoughts.


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention


>> Loren,
>>
>> I still find myself getting a little uneasy with how we carry out 
>> accepting people where they are even though I agree that we need to do 
>> that.  I think
>> independence is not just accepting the status quo but it is something we 
>> have to strive for.  It doesn't mean that we have to constantly beat up on 
>> ourselves
>> because we are not as independent as someone else in terms of not 
>> requiring help, for example, but it also sometimes means looking at what 
>> we do and
>> how we might do it more independently.  It can be easy for any of us to 
>> decide that a given problem isn't our fault, it is everybody else's fault 
>> for not
>> accepting us as we are.  Sometimes people are quick to judge, but 
>> sometimes we sell ourselves short.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:18:10 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, there may be another disability involved.  And it also may be that 
>>>the
>>>person is older.  Whatever the reason, it happens.
>>
>>>Anyway, we need to meet people where they are.  And let them decide how to
>>>handle things.  We can show them ways to handle various situations.  And
>>>maybe a good discussion would be exactly what is independence anyway?
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 10:45 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>
>>
>>>> We need to be understanding that blind people and our members in
>>>> particularly come to conventions with many different backgrounds and
>>>> levels of skills so
>>>> I agree with your point.  Our role should be to help people achieve
>>>> independence, not to require that independence be already achieved 
>>>> before
>>>> attending a
>>>> convention.  I do question your statement that sighted people don't cut
>>>> their own meat, though.  I've ever seen a sighted person not cut their 
>>>> own
>>>> meat
>>>> unless there was another disability involved.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:00:03 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I'm not surprised at all but finding those who do not cut their own meat
>>>>>at
>>>>>nfb conventions.  Many sighted do not cut their own these days. And
>>>>>cutting
>>>>>your own meat does nothing to prove you are independent.  We all have
>>>>>differing abilities.  And as long as we are calling the shots, then who 
>>>>>is
>>>>>to say who is independent and who is not?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:50 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> Great points from personal experience! But given the philosophy of
>>>>>> independence, I'm kind of surprised you've seen individuals who need
>>>>>> help
>>>>>> cutting meat.  I would think those people would be embarrassed to be 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> NFB convention with many independent blind people. I've certainly seen
>>>>>> many different types of people with a wide range of interests at
>>>>>> conventions. I have been to mainly state ones but one part of a 
>>>>>> national
>>>>>> one.  Yes there is certainly diversity.
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:41 PM
>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been to quite a number of NFb conventions, and I will say that
>>>>>> I have observed a wide range of persons and abilities.  I have seen
>>>>>> some great travelers, and I have seen people who bring a sighted
>>>>>> parent or friend because they don't travel alone.  I have seen people
>>>>>> who went through buffet lines with little or no assistance, and I
>>>>>> have had dinner with people who requested that the waiter or waitress
>>>>>> cut their meat.  I suspect that the range of people and abilities is
>>>>>> much greater than you think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 04:13 PM 8/2/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>>Well, I presume you're asking how I know that those who attend the
>>>>>>>conventions are the best of the best. And I'll admit its just
>>>>>>>speculation.
>>>>>>>But it just stands to reason. Of course, it wouldn't be a perfect
>>>>>>>correllation either.  But I'm sure the majority of people at the NFB
>>>>>>>conventions are those who have it together (for lack of a better 
>>>>>>>term).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I once got into a debate with someone from the ACB who questioned the
>>>>>>>70%
>>>>>>>unemployment figure for blind people. He had done  a survey of ACB
>>>>>>>members
>>>>>>>and found that the unemployment rate was more like 30 - 40%. But I
>>>>>>>pointed
>>>>>>>out that ACB members probably aren't average blind people. 30 - 40% of
>>>>>>>ACB
>>>>>>>members might be unemployed but that doesn't mean that 30 - 40% of all
>>>>>>>blind people are unemployed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>NFB members probably aren't average either, especially those who 
>>>>>>>attend
>>>>>>>conventions. So you probably couldn't get an accurate glimpse into the
>>>>>>>lives of the average blind person even if you expanded the voting to
>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>not attending the convention. But it would help, IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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