[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Thu Jul 14 05:13:54 UTC 2011

Ken, the reason why I think that’s the wrong answer (and I’m the one 
with the complaint!) is that you really have to choose: Do you want a 
payout, or do you want it fixed in the future?

Government agencies can tie up a lawsuit for years, resulting in 
diminishing returns for the injured party.  Often, they eventually 
get settled, but an individual rarely case rarely results in major 
changes.

If we want results, and if we want them quickly, the solution is a 
complaint to the appropriate office claiming that civil rights were 
violated, regulations not followed, etc.  You have the opportunity in 
this process to ask for particular redress of your complaint, and so 
you request that the TSA at this particular airport receive training 
in their own regulations pertaining to disability and mobility aids, 
adaptive devices, etc.

The cost of doing this kind of training is not insignificant, but 
it’s a lot less than a lawsuit settlement plus legal fees.  Moreover 
they can readily agree to have the training without admitting to 
doing anything wrong.  If you want satisfaction, it’s hard to get.  
If you want the problem fixed for next time, it’s the fastest and 
least difficult solution.

But it really takes an organization to put pressure on a government 
agency to do anything at all.  An individual can try, but as several 
have pointed out, the TSA has not been responsive to complaints and 
criticism under the Obama administration.

Joseph

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 12:02:40AM -0400, Kenneth Chrane wrote:
>Hi Joseph and others on this list:
>Let us take TSA to court.
>We are no longer Second-class Citizens.
>Enough, is enough!
>
>Ken Chrane
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Gloria Whipple" 
><ladygloria at webband.com>
>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:45 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Gloria Whipple
>>Corresponding Secretary
>>Inland Empire chapter
>>nfb of WA
>>
>>Cell: 509-475-4993
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 22:26
>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>
>>So then I guess the TSA agent was right, if you’re a fair
>>representative.  No other blind person insisted upon his rights
>>clearly stated in TSA regulations.
>>
>>An attack on the dignity of the blind is an attack on every single
>>one of us.  If that’s not your fight, then I am sorry.  If it is not
>>the National Federation of the Blind’s fight, then we have become as
>>cowardly as the ACB and the HELP committee can safely ignore our
>>little request that blind people be paid a fair wage for fair work,
>>because we lack the backbone to defend what little we have won, let
>>alone fight for more dignity.
>>
>>It isn’t about how far I could walk with or without a cane.  It is
>>about it being respectable to be blind.  It is about defending a law
>>that Federationists fought and went to jail trying to win for all of
>>us, whether you personally give a damn or not.  This was an attack on
>>the dignity of the blind, outright, and it was an attack on every
>>single one of us.
>>
>>I’ve pointed out that you don’t feel any need or desire to defend the
>>rights the Federation fought so hard to attain for you.  If you feel
>>insulted by that, maybe you need to ask yourself what your life would
>>be right now if the Federation hadn’t been there to fight for the
>>rights you have today, including those you casually disregard as not
>>personally significant.
>>
>>That would be equivalent to me saying that discrimination against
>>guide dogs isn’t my fight because I use a cane.  It IS my fight,
>>because I am a Federationist and an attack on the rights of any of us
>>as blind citizens is an attack on every single one of us.  I don’t
>>know about anybody else, especially after reading some of the
>>cowardly responses on this list, but that is what I go to the matt
>>for, every single time, whether it happens to me or not.
>>
>>Joseph
>>
>>On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:09:16AM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>Hi Joe,
>>>
>>>You're assuming I feel intimidated , and this isn't the case at all.
>>>However, I will say that as someone who travels for work, travels for fun,
>>>and travels often, I'm inclined to smile and nod and just let the TSA guys
>>>have their way rather than risk my livelihood and my lifestyle over
>>>something that is very low on my list of issues.  Using my cane to go
>>>through the machine is likely to set it off, as it has metal on 
>>>the tip, the
>>>chain, and sometimes things attached to the chain.  To me, putting my cane
>>>on the belt and walking maybe five to ten steps at most and 
>>>getting my cane
>>>on the other side is not taxing my skills, my patience, or my dignity.
>>>There are plenty of other things that do, however, but this isn't one of
>>>them.
>>>
>>>I've said that it sure sounds like you got rotten treatment at 
>>>the hands of
>>>the TSA guys, and I think you should pursue a complaint, but 
>>>don't put words
>>>in my mouth, impune my integrity, or frankly insult me because this just
>>>isn't my fight.  Do I like the brutalizing we all get at the 
>>>security check
>>>points?  Of course not, but this is an issue way bigger than all 
>>>of us here.
>>>
>>>
>>>Airports are full of idiots who know nothing about blindness -- 
>>>have you had
>>>a sky cap assist you lately?  Talk about insulting!  A gate agent recently
>>>accused my wife of faking being blind because she was such a competent
>>>traveler.  Now that's something I'm willing to go to the matt over...
>>>
>>>Best of luck,
>>>
>>>Brian M
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:29 PM
>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>
>>>So what you're saying, Brian, is that you're willing to be 
>>>intimidated into
>>>giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can 
>>>do too much
>>>to you if you don't do exactly what they say, whether it's 
>>>illegal or flies
>>>in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an
>>>organization?
>>>
>>>Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said 
>>>that of nearly
>>>3,000 blind people going through the airport, I'm the only one 
>>>who insisted
>>>that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, denied the use of my
>>>cane for travel.
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>>Hi Peter,
>>>>
>>>>I don't think anyone feels that Joe was treated well, or with the
>>>>respect he deserves, but security checks are a serious hassle and a
>>>>drag for everyone, and indignities abound.  I think solidarity across
>>>>the board, and not just for blind people, is in order.
>>>>
>>>>I merely say that for me using my cane to walk a few feet through the
>>>>metal detector is not worth fighting over -- the last thing I need is
>>>>to end up on a "no fly" list.  The point is, you are exactly right that
>>>>the blind have been fighting, and getting arrested, and going to jail,
>>>>for years over our right to have our mobility devices, and we've won
>>>>some, and lost many others.  I think we need to figure out where to
>>>>focus our energies to maximize independence while recognizing that we
>>>>face a very difficult environment in which to make our arguments when it
>>>comes to security.
>>>>
>>>>Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, have the right to sit in
>>>>the emergency row -- now that makes me feel more like a child than does
>>>>a quick guide through the magnetometer .
>>>>
>>>>Not long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting
>>>>because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United
>>>>States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm
>>>>willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a
>>>>jail in Thailand, though *smile*
>>>>
>>>>In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any of us, are trying to miminize
>>>>the fight we all face.
>>>>
>>>>Brian M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM
>>>>To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>>
>>>>Hello Alicia and everyone,
>>>>
>>>>The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut both of your
>>>>feet off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. Blind
>>>>people have fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes and
>>>>dogs with them at all times while passing through TSA check points and on
>>>planes themselves.
>>>>Blind people were arrested and went to jail to insure these rights are
>>>>protected and we don't need our own people telling us that it's not a
>>>>big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Peter Donahue who along with Mary took their last flight ever on a
>>>>commercial airliner and can look forward to avoiding TSA screeners in
>>>>the future!
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree with Mike and others here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too
>>>>much power.  It's shameful that they can perform such invasive
>>>>patdowns, violating one's personal space and dignity.  but as Ryan
>>>>said, that's not a blindness issue: they can do that to anyone.  And,
>>>>I've never understood people's issue with giving up their cane for 30
>>>>seconds, taking someone's hand to walk five steps through the security
>>>>check, and then have their cane handed right back to them.  I question
>>>>someone's mobility training if they are unable to walk five steps
>>>>without their cane, and also can't help but wonder if they're
>>>>exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious independence,"
>>>>by refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for that very
>>>>brief time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if you get a
>>>reply from Scott LaBarre about this?
>>>>
>>>>Alicia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
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>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladygloria%40webband.comAmen 
>>on that one!
>>
>>
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