[nfb-talk] {Disarmed} Federal law preempts blind flyers' claims over airport kiosks

[Michael Hingson]

To be clear no one will ever determine that the kiosks violate the ADA since they come solely under the prevue of the ACAA.  That is, of course part of the problem.

Until citizens have the right to bring personal actions under the ACAA and litigate for damages then we shall not see the changes we desire.


Mike Hingson

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-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:36 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] {Disarmed} Federal law preempts blind flyers' claimsover airport kiosks

Air travel has been socialized.  In the brave new world (order, if 
you require tinfoil headgear), the Federal government is the only 
authority as to your civil and legal rights, accessibility not least 
among them.

Nobody has yet determined that the kiosks do not violate the ADA, and 
the appropriate agencies can regulate them without necessarily 
changing the statute.  For every page of law, there are ten of 
regulation to implement the law.

Ain’t bureaucracy great?

Joseph


On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 09:20:22AM -0700, Mike Freeman wrote:
>John:
>
>I agree with you on this one. It will be interesting to see how appellate courts deal with this issue since ever since 9/11, courts have given airport personnel far more leeway in dealing with human rights issues than they would have were the location somewhere other than an airport. It will be interesting to see if this holds true in this instance. I hope not but I am not sanguine.
>
>We may have to get Congress to change the law but this may be easier said than      done given current politics.
>
>Mike
>
>On Jun 17, 2011, at 8:48, "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, the real issue is that the law is stupid.  I can understand the reason for the Air Carrier Access Act but it shouldn't apply to airport kiosks. I can believe that it does, but it shouldn't. The airlines are just taking advantage of a legal loophole to discriminate against the blind.
>>
>> This is a no-brainer technically.  Its the exact same technology that is used in ATM and voting machines.  Really, the airlines should be ashamed of themselves for fighting this. I'll bet they spent way more money on lawyers than they would have on making their kiosks accessible. In the end, I bet they have to spend the money on accessibility anyway. Their decision was both stupid and mean spirited.
>>
>> So now we have to start working to get the law changed to specifically exclude airport kiosks from the Air Carrier Access Act. It will probably take a long time and take quite a bit of work. But it may not be too hard. The CCVA passed fairly easily. Well, there may be some people on this list saying, "Yeah, easy for you to say. You weren't involved in all the hard work that entailed." Well, yeah, I know. But still, it wasn't like it took 20 years and snuck through with a one vote margin. I think Congress is pretty open to the idea of accessibility when its not too difficult technically.
>>
>> Boy, sometimes capitalism sucks. I'm not saying there is anything better but sometimes capitalism just sucks.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] {Disarmed} Federal law preempts blind flyers' claimsover airport kiosks
>>
>>
>> the article here in question is an abstract of a court decision and merely
>> states what was decided. As this was taken from a legal publication it is
>> merely presenting the facts and not making judgments or editoralizing.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] {Disarmed} Federal law preempts blind flyers' claims
>> over airport kiosks
>>
>>
>> Oftly one-sided article, huh?
>>
>> On 5/23/11, Sherri <flmom2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm sure we'll think of some other way to solve this problem.
>>>
>>> Sherri
>>>
>>>
>>> Westlaw Journal Aviation
>>> Federal law preempts blind flyers' claims over airport kiosks
>>> 5/23/2011 COMMENTS (0)
>>>
>>>
>>> May 23 (Westlaw Journals) - Federal law preempts a class action brought by
>>> the National Federation of the Blind and several visually impaired people
>>> over the accessibility of airport ticketing kiosks, a California federal
>>> judge has ruled.
>>>
>>> U.S. District Judge William Alsup of the Northern District of California
>>> dismissed the NFB's lawsuit, finding the claims preempted by the Air Carrier
>>> Access Act and the Airline Deregulation Act.
>>>
>>> The NFB and other plaintiffs alleged United Airlines violates California
>>> disability law by failing to make airport ticketing kiosks accessible to the
>>> blind.
>>>
>>> According to the complaint, the kiosks employ a visual computer screen with
>>> prompts and touch-screen navigation but do not offer an audio output or
>>> other medium to make the kiosks accessible to the blind.
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs brought their class action on behalf of all legally blind
>>> people in the United States who have flown on United from a California
>>> airport and have been unable to use the airline's kiosks.
>>>
>>> United moved for dismissal, arguing that the Airline Deregulation Act and
>>> the Air Carrier Access Act preempt the plaintiffs' claims.
>>>
>>> Judge Alsup agreed.
>>>
>>> The claims are field-preempted under the ACAA because the Department of
>>> Transportation pervasively regulates airport kiosk accessibility, he said.
>>>
>>> In addition, the Airline Deregulation Act expressly preempts the claims
>>> because they defendants provide an airline "service" as defined in the
>>> statute.
>>>
>>> Finally, the judge rejected the plaintiffs' argument that the Airline
>>> Deregulation Act was meant to target airline deregulation rather than
>>> discrimination.
>>>
>>> "The Airline Deregulation Act unequivocally declares that no state may enact
>>> a law related to airline service," the Judge Alsup said.  "Congress could
>>> have drawn the preemption provision more narrowly.  It did not."
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind et al. v. United Airlines Inc., No. C
>>> 10-04816 WHA, 2011 WL 1544524 (N.D. Cal. Apr. 25, 2011).
>>>
>>> (Reporting by Jennifer Long, Westlaw Journal Aviation)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Register or log in to comment.
>>> © 2011 Thomson Reuters
>>>
>>>  a.. Co
>>> Have you visited my personal page at
>>> http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/Sherri.Brun
>>> If so, Thank you for changing what it means to be blind.
>>> If not, please go there now!
>>> Thank you.
>>> flmom2006 at gmail.com
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>
>> — Robert Byrne
>>
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