[nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Sun Dec 16 23:53:09 UTC 2012


Buddy, do not confuse one person's opinions and actions as official 
NFB policy.

Dave

At 02:41 PM 12/16/2012, you wrote:
>Hold up.
>
>A "real Federationist" uses a cane?
>
>Excuse me?
>
>Has our organization become as judgmental and unwelcoming as our 
>critics would have it?
>
>If so, I'm out as of now.
>
>The Federation I know, or thought I knew, welcomed all blind people, 
>regardless of ability or regardless of where they are in their 
>adjustment to blindness. The NFB I know, or thought I knew, didn't 
>castigate its members for not being "superblinks", or, at the very 
>least, living up to some ideal or other. The NFB I know, or thought 
>I knew, helped blind folks progress in their philosophy of blindness 
>and attitudes towards it, leading by example and not by clubbing 
>people over their virtual heads.
>
>Sure, your house, your rules; if you don't want to allow someone in 
>your home without a cane, it's your right. It's your home, after 
>all. It isn't terribly welcoming or nurturing, though. Whether this 
>member's limitations are real or imagined, they're real to her.
>
>There's a huge difference between good-natured ribbing and 
>browbeating though.
>
>BTW, what if I use a guide dog most of the time? Am I only "real" 
>part of the time?
>
>I believe folks like Mr. Capps use a human guide most of the time, 
>if not all of the time, and have for decades. Would you say that Mr. 
>Capps is not a "real" Federationist? I'd defy you to find someone 
>who's done more for the NFB in particular and blind folks in general 
>than Don Capps.
>
>So, am I resigning, thus cutting our chapter membership by 
>significant, or was I correct about our movement, meaning I can stay?
>
>--
>Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
>On Dec 16, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Joshua Lester 
><JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Aleeha!
> > Great post as always, and it's good to see you back on the lists!
> > I use a cane all of the time when I travel.
> > While at the communities of faith service one day at convention, 
> I was in a hurry and my NFB folding cane wasn't unfolding 
> propperly, so I had to go up without it, to accompany a singer, 
> (I'm a pianist.)
> > When I got back, word got to the lady that was running the 
> service, that I had left my cane at my seat.
> > She, assuming that I didn't use the cane all of the time, blurted 
> out that a real federationist uses a cane!
> > I agree that a real federationist uses a cane, but when the 
> folding cane doesn't cooperate, and you leave the other one in the 
> hotel room, it's difficult!
> > We should all be careful of what we say and how we say it, 
> because if I was someone from the outside looking in, I would've 
> probably left this organization over it!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> > ________________________________________
> > From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Aleeha 
> Dudley [blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:13 PM
> > To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> >
> > I, too, believe we've just about beaten this topic to death, though i
> > do have something to say. To propose not allowing someone into your
> > house, chapter meeting, or anywhere else because they do not use a
> > travel aid is, quite frankly, a bit harsh. We, as a Federation, have
> > always called ourselves the Federation family. Ideally, a family is
> > caring and welcomes new members without fuss, no matter their
> > differences. I believe this new individual should be welcomed into the
> > Federation with open arms and minds. If we can help her to understand
> > the benefits of using a cane or dog and that these tools are not bad
> > things to have around, she may come to understand and make her own
> > decisions. When you say that she is a danger to herself, should not
> > your first goal be to help her get out of that danger? I believe that
> > excluding her will lead to further injury. Let's help her become a
> > strong, independent blind person if we can. Tell her the story of your
> > friend who also has seizures. Tell her success stories and show how
> > much a cane or a dog makes a difference. Then go from there. This
> > person should not be excluded just because she is not choosing to use
> > a travel aid. For all we know, she could have come to us for help and
> > has just not asked for it yet because she may not yet feel
> > comfortable. Sometimes we forget as Federationists that taking a step
> > to become "committed" to one organization or another can be quite
> > intimidating.
> > JMO,
> > Aleeha
> >
> > On 12/16/12, Mike Edwards <mike at ultraemail.us> wrote:
> >> Ray Charles prided himself on not using a cane, "No cane, no dog, no
> >> guitar", but, those were different times.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:32 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> >>
> >>
> >> Content preview:  Perter, that's a difficult one! I get around with and
> >> with
> >>    out canes and dogs but routinely use both. I would say that showing by
> >> example
> >>    is best but sounds like this person just doesn't get it! I wonder if
> >> they
> >>    couldn't be hooked up with a good mobility instructor. Maybe just at
> >> first
> >>    as a person your chapter brings in. For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter
> >> brings
> >>    in a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone! He
> >> also
> >>   teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or how
> >>
> >> not
> >>    to put it between peoples legs. This might give your person an
> >> opportunity
> >>    to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know. Of
> >>
> >> course,
> >>    his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane! But,
> >> they
> >>   should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being! -----
> >> Original
> >>    Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> To: "Blind
> >> Talk
> >>    Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> Cc: "Daniel Carr"
> >> <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>;
> >>    <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM Subject:
> >> Re:
> >>    [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane [...]
> >>
> >> Content analysis details:   (-4.6 points, 5.0 required)
> >>
> >>  pts rule name              description
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> >>                             [209.98.54.35 listed in list.dnswl.org]
> >>  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail
> >> provider
> >>                             (lkeeler[at]comcast.net)
> >> -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD        Envelope sender domain matches handover relay
> >> domain
> >>  0.0 T_FRT_PROFILE2         BODY: ReplaceTags: Profile (2)
> >> -1.9 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
> >>                             [score: 0.0000]
> >>  0.0 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE      RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76
> >> chars
> >> -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK
> >> signature
> >>  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not
> >> necessarily valid
> >> X-Spam-Flag: NO
> >> X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 9.0.930 [2634.1.1/5464]
> >>
> >> Perter, that's a difficult one!  I get around with and with out canes and
> >> dogs but routinely use both.  I would say that showing by example is best
> >> but sounds like this person just doesn't get it!  I wonder if 
> they couldn't
> >> be hooked up with a good mobility instructor.  Maybe just at first as a
> >> person your chapter brings in.  For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter brings
> >> in
> >> a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone!  He also
> >> teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or how
> >> not
> >> to put it between peoples legs.  This might give your person an 
> opportunity
> >> to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know.  Of
> >> course, his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane!
> >> But,
> >> they should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being!
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: "Daniel Carr" <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>; <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
> >>
> >>    While we don't want to push people away if folks are falling and
> >> getting
> >> hurt there should come a time to draw a line in the sand and demand that
> >> these folks use travel aids and offer to help them improve their 
> techniques
> >> or get VR services or apply for a guide dog to assist them with this
> >> endeavor. The question we're really asking is if such 
> individuals refuse to
> >> learn blindness travel skills, are constantly hurting themselves 
> and posing
> >> a safety threat to themselves and others, and have repeatedly been offered
> >> assistance and continue to refuse it when do we draw the line with such
> >> persons and demand that they improve their travel skills or face
> >> consequences if they continue to refuse to do so? When is it time for the
> >> day of reckoning? My own feelings are that if the individual in question
> >> does not pose a threat to themselves or others in a particular environment
> >> they can get around by whatever travel method they feel works best for
> >> them.
> >> This particular person uses neither echolocation, a cane, a dog, 
> or a human
> >> guide. It's this choice that has prompted chapter members  to ask this
> >> question. Thanks for the feedback.
> >>
> >> Peter Donahue
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I was recently talking with my good friend and President of our 
> Westchester
> >> Chapter here in NY, he is witnessing more and more blind people not using
> >> there canes and getting hurt, also I recently spoke to a high school
> >> student
> >> here on Long Island, who we were trying to help her get services in her
> >> district, since they just moved to a town over from me.
> >> She has a cane but doesn't use it.
> >> She has some sight, I asked her can you tell when there is a whole in the
> >> street, or like me when I started losing my vision, if the rug 
> on the floor
> >> was the same as the stairs, could she tell when the stairs started or
> >> ended,
> >> I couldn't wow, that was a learning lesson for me.
> >> She said no, her mother said that the other kids in her other 
> school stayed
> >> away from each other.
> >> But adults please, I know it is depressing, at times I don't get out of
> >> bed,
> >> and for those of you who know my wonderful husband, Nelson, wont stand for
> >> it.
> >> Instead of picking on people or pointing them out, keep encouraging them,
> >> don't push, you will push them away.
> >> Cheryl
> >>
> >> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> >> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> >> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> >> 
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> >> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.Echevarria Travel
> >> and
> >> proud member of the National Federation of the Blind will be 
> holding a year
> >> round fundraiser for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and
> >> other resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6
> >> 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
> >> 12/30/2014
> >> a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.  Also is you book a
> >> Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation,
> >> $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.  You do not need to
> >> be
> >> a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: rforetjr at att.net
> >>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:04:57 -0600
> >>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> >>>
> >>> Some points of observation.
> >>>
> >>> 1.  Perhaps this individual is not willing even to acknowledge their
> >>> blindness?
> >>>
> >>> 2.  Does this individual even acknowledge that there are other blind
> >>> people who have seasures and the like and still use canes and or dogs?
> >>>
> >>> 3.  Does this individual have any blindness skills at all?
> >>>
> >>> 4.  Is this individual as hard headed about other aspects of his life?
> >>>
> >>> 5.  Would it be correct to assume that y'all have tried to physically
> >>> demonstrate the usefulness of the cane?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> >>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Good morning everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>>   An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San
> >>>> Antonio
> >>>> and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and
> >>>> absolutely
> >>>> refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party
> >>>> and
> >>>> had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this
> >>>> event.
> >>>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up
> >>>> without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began
> >>>> giving
> >>>> us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past
> >>>> O&M
> >>>> instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this
> >>>> person's
> >>>> having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number
> >>>> of
> >>>> other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at
> >>>> Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also
> >>>> has
> >>>> seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the
> >>>> confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
> >>>> well.
> >>>> The
> >>>> individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane
> >>>> users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea
> >>>> and
> >>>> use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation.
> >>>>
> >>>>   The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by
> >>>> several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she
> >>>> must
> >>>> bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our
> >>>> residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit.
> >>>>
> >>>>   When attempting to reason with the person in question members have
> >>>> been
> >>>> accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why
> >>>> he/she
> >>>> cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that
> >>>> neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
> >>>> travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is
> >>>> over
> >>>> whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness
> >>>> professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This
> >>>> individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them
> >>>> short
> >>>> on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using
> >>>> a
> >>>> cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any
> >>>> of
> >>>> our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send
> >>>> them
> >>>> home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to
> >>>> reason
> >>>> and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last
> >>>> thing
> >>>> we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we
> >>>> know
> >>>> that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and
> >>>> as
> >>>> negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply
> >>>> in
> >>>> this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help
> >>>> us
> >>>> wit this one.
> >>>>
> >>>>   We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence
> >>>> and
> >>>> be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from
> >>>> joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they
> >>>> would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them
> >>>> regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter Donahue





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