[nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Tue Dec 18 04:37:49 UTC 2012
Buddy,
I think that was a mistake of Joshua's. The nfb welcomes all people in their
adjustment to blindness.
I've never seen someone excluded for not using a cane. Nope, not in our
chapter.
So, I would not mix up comments with official nfb positions.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Buddy Brannan
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:41 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
Hold up.
A "real Federationist" uses a cane?
Excuse me?
Has our organization become as judgmental and unwelcoming as our critics
would have it?
If so, I'm out as of now.
The Federation I know, or thought I knew, welcomed all blind people,
regardless of ability or regardless of where they are in their adjustment to
blindness. The NFB I know, or thought I knew, didn't castigate its members
for not being "superblinks", or, at the very least, living up to some ideal
or other. The NFB I know, or thought I knew, helped blind folks progress in
their philosophy of blindness and attitudes towards it, leading by example
and not by clubbing people over their virtual heads.
Sure, your house, your rules; if you don't want to allow someone in your
home without a cane, it's your right. It's your home, after all. It isn't
terribly welcoming or nurturing, though. Whether this member's limitations
are real or imagined, they're real to her.
There's a huge difference between good-natured ribbing and browbeating
though.
BTW, what if I use a guide dog most of the time? Am I only "real" part of
the time?
I believe folks like Mr. Capps use a human guide most of the time, if not
all of the time, and have for decades. Would you say that Mr. Capps is not a
"real" Federationist? I'd defy you to find someone who's done more for the
NFB in particular and blind folks in general than Don Capps.
So, am I resigning, thus cutting our chapter membership by significant, or
was I correct about our movement, meaning I can stay?
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
On Dec 16, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Joshua Lester
<JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Aleeha!
> Great post as always, and it's good to see you back on the lists!
> I use a cane all of the time when I travel.
> While at the communities of faith service one day at convention, I was in
> a hurry and my NFB folding cane wasn't unfolding propperly, so I had to go
> up without it, to accompany a singer, (I'm a pianist.)
> When I got back, word got to the lady that was running the service, that I
> had left my cane at my seat.
> She, assuming that I didn't use the cane all of the time, blurted out that
> a real federationist uses a cane!
> I agree that a real federationist uses a cane, but when the folding cane
> doesn't cooperate, and you leave the other one in the hotel room, it's
> difficult!
> We should all be careful of what we say and how we say it, because if I
> was someone from the outside looking in, I would've probably left this
> organization over it!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Aleeha Dudley
> [blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:13 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
> I, too, believe we've just about beaten this topic to death, though i
> do have something to say. To propose not allowing someone into your
> house, chapter meeting, or anywhere else because they do not use a
> travel aid is, quite frankly, a bit harsh. We, as a Federation, have
> always called ourselves the Federation family. Ideally, a family is
> caring and welcomes new members without fuss, no matter their
> differences. I believe this new individual should be welcomed into the
> Federation with open arms and minds. If we can help her to understand
> the benefits of using a cane or dog and that these tools are not bad
> things to have around, she may come to understand and make her own
> decisions. When you say that she is a danger to herself, should not
> your first goal be to help her get out of that danger? I believe that
> excluding her will lead to further injury. Let's help her become a
> strong, independent blind person if we can. Tell her the story of your
> friend who also has seizures. Tell her success stories and show how
> much a cane or a dog makes a difference. Then go from there. This
> person should not be excluded just because she is not choosing to use
> a travel aid. For all we know, she could have come to us for help and
> has just not asked for it yet because she may not yet feel
> comfortable. Sometimes we forget as Federationists that taking a step
> to become "committed" to one organization or another can be quite
> intimidating.
> JMO,
> Aleeha
>
> On 12/16/12, Mike Edwards <mike at ultraemail.us> wrote:
>> Ray Charles prided himself on not using a cane, "No cane, no dog, no
>> guitar", but, those were different times.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>>
>> Content preview: Perter, that's a difficult one! I get around with and
>> with
>> out canes and dogs but routinely use both. I would say that showing by
>> example
>> is best but sounds like this person just doesn't get it! I wonder if
>> they
>> couldn't be hooked up with a good mobility instructor. Maybe just at
>> first
>> as a person your chapter brings in. For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter
>> brings
>> in a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone! He
>> also
>> teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or
>> how
>>
>> not
>> to put it between peoples legs. This might give your person an
>> opportunity
>> to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know.
>> Of
>>
>> course,
>> his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane! But,
>> they
>> should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being! -----
>> Original
>> Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> To: "Blind
>> Talk
>> Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> Cc: "Daniel Carr"
>> <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>;
>> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM Subject:
>> Re:
>> [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane [...]
>>
>> Content analysis details: (-4.6 points, 5.0 required)
>>
>> pts rule name description
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>> X-Spam-Flag: NO
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>>
>> Perter, that's a difficult one! I get around with and with out canes and
>> dogs but routinely use both. I would say that showing by example is best
>> but sounds like this person just doesn't get it! I wonder if they
>> couldn't
>> be hooked up with a good mobility instructor. Maybe just at first as a
>> person your chapter brings in. For example, ant Ann Arbor chapter brings
>> in
>> a mobility instructor who teaches cane technique to everyone! He also
>> teaches cane manners such as how to put your cane under the table or how
>> not
>> to put it between peoples legs. This might give your person an
>> opportunity
>> to try using a cane and not be singled out for what he doesn't know. Of
>> course, his real issue is he is probably to embarrassed to use a cane!
>> But,
>> they should be more embarrassed about how unsafe they are being!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Daniel Carr" <danlcarr at www.carrtronics.com>; <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>>
>> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>>
>> While we don't want to push people away if folks are falling and
>> getting
>> hurt there should come a time to draw a line in the sand and demand that
>> these folks use travel aids and offer to help them improve their
>> techniques
>> or get VR services or apply for a guide dog to assist them with this
>> endeavor. The question we're really asking is if such individuals refuse
>> to
>> learn blindness travel skills, are constantly hurting themselves and
>> posing
>> a safety threat to themselves and others, and have repeatedly been
>> offered
>> assistance and continue to refuse it when do we draw the line with such
>> persons and demand that they improve their travel skills or face
>> consequences if they continue to refuse to do so? When is it time for the
>> day of reckoning? My own feelings are that if the individual in question
>> does not pose a threat to themselves or others in a particular
>> environment
>> they can get around by whatever travel method they feel works best for
>> them.
>> This particular person uses neither echolocation, a cane, a dog, or a
>> human
>> guide. It's this choice that has prompted chapter members to ask this
>> question. Thanks for the feedback.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>>
>>
>> I was recently talking with my good friend and President of our
>> Westchester
>> Chapter here in NY, he is witnessing more and more blind people not using
>> there canes and getting hurt, also I recently spoke to a high school
>> student
>> here on Long Island, who we were trying to help her get services in her
>> district, since they just moved to a town over from me.
>> She has a cane but doesn't use it.
>> She has some sight, I asked her can you tell when there is a whole in the
>> street, or like me when I started losing my vision, if the rug on the
>> floor
>> was the same as the stairs, could she tell when the stairs started or
>> ended,
>> I couldn't wow, that was a learning lesson for me.
>> She said no, her mother said that the other kids in her other school
>> stayed
>> away from each other.
>> But adults please, I know it is depressing, at times I don't get out of
>> bed,
>> and for those of you who know my wonderful husband, Nelson, wont stand
>> for
>> it.
>> Instead of picking on people or pointing them out, keep encouraging them,
>> don't push, you will push them away.
>> Cheryl
>>
>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.Echevarria Travel
>> and
>> proud member of the National Federation of the Blind will be holding a
>> year
>> round fundraiser for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and
>> other resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6
>> 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
>> 12/30/2014
>> a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate. Also is you book a
>> Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation,
>> $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well. You do not need to
>> be
>> a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
>>
>>
>>> From: rforetjr at att.net
>>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:04:57 -0600
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>> Some points of observation.
>>>
>>> 1. Perhaps this individual is not willing even to acknowledge their
>>> blindness?
>>>
>>> 2. Does this individual even acknowledge that there are other blind
>>> people who have seasures and the like and still use canes and or dogs?
>>>
>>> 3. Does this individual have any blindness skills at all?
>>>
>>> 4. Is this individual as hard headed about other aspects of his life?
>>>
>>> 5. Would it be correct to assume that y'all have tried to physically
>>> demonstrate the usefulness of the cane?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>
>>>> An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San
>>>> Antonio
>>>> and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and
>>>> absolutely
>>>> refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party
>>>> and
>>>> had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this
>>>> event.
>>>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up
>>>> without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began
>>>> giving
>>>> us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past
>>>> O&M
>>>> instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this
>>>> person's
>>>> having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number
>>>> of
>>>> other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at
>>>> Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also
>>>> has
>>>> seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the
>>>> confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
>>>> well.
>>>> The
>>>> individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane
>>>> users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea
>>>> and
>>>> use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation.
>>>>
>>>> The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by
>>>> several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she
>>>> must
>>>> bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our
>>>> residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit.
>>>>
>>>> When attempting to reason with the person in question members have
>>>> been
>>>> accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why
>>>> he/she
>>>> cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that
>>>> neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
>>>> travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is
>>>> over
>>>> whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness
>>>> professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This
>>>> individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them
>>>> short
>>>> on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using
>>>> a
>>>> cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any
>>>> of
>>>> our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send
>>>> them
>>>> home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to
>>>> reason
>>>> and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last
>>>> thing
>>>> we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we
>>>> know
>>>> that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and
>>>> as
>>>> negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply
>>>> in
>>>> this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help
>>>> us
>>>> wit this one.
>>>>
>>>> We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence
>>>> and
>>>> be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from
>>>> joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they
>>>> would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them
>>>> regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>> “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.”
>>>> Isaiah 54:17
>>>>
>>>> “While for our princes they prepare
>>>> In caverns deep a burning snare,
>>>> He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
>>>> And the dark treachery brought to day.”
>>>> Anonymous
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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