[nfb-talk] Alright, from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 62

Thu Dec 27 18:54:01 UTC 2012

Yes, I will and do in fact confirm this.  And, as Mike will doubtless confirm, I am quite conservative.  Yet, the fact remains, that while we may disagree about many points, we seem, (or so it seems to me) to agree with respect to many blindness matters.  We also agree-I believe I may safely say-that you appeaer not to be willing to do what both Mike and I are asking you.  Forget it.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:

> Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Since you refuse to grasp or seem unwilling or incapable of admitting this and dropping the subject, you should know that I've suggested to Dave Andrews that this list be moderated for a week or two. In saying this, you should know that I'm quite liberal as Ray will confirm.
> 
> Mike Freeman
> sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 27, 2012, at 10:20, "Todor Fassl" <fassl.tod at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well, you can label CBS and the New York Times as propoganda outlets but that would be incorrect.  Just saying something doesn't make it true. Again, Fox News is openly trying to persuade it's viewers to vote conservative. That's why it's a propoganda outlet.  It's not my opinion that Fox News is trying to persuade people to vote conservative, they say so themselves all the time.
>> 
>> Is CBS and the New York Times openly trying to persuade people to vote liberal? Well, not openly. At worst, you can claim that they are doing so as the result of the human weakness of letting their biases influence which facts they consider relevant. But they are not deliberately trying to persuade people to vote for liberals.
>> 
>> Of course, the NYT probably endorsed Barack Obama for President. But, at least theoretically, that isn't supposed to influence their reporting. You can argue that as a practical matter it does. But that would be debatable. It is not debatable that Fox News is trying to persuade people to vote for conservatives and is, therefore, a propoganda outlet. That's just a fact.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62
>> 
>> 
>>> You're not getting it: there are those who consider CBS News and the NY Times as propaganda organs also and all the more shameful for not admitting it. Since we discuss our common connection, blindness, here and are loath to pay for a debating society here, especially when such debates do little more than generate controversy and division, it's better to keep to blindness.
>>> 
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:41, "Todor Fassl" <fassl.tod at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well, I mainly just want to nake the distinction between Fox News and other news sources clear.  It's up to the reader to decide the significance. It's not a matter of opinion that Fox News is trying to persuade people to vote conservative. They say so themselves practically every day. By definition, that makes them a propoganda outlet, not a news source.
>>>> 
>>>> There may be value in reading "The Daily Worker" from the Communist Party. You may learn things you wouldn't have learned otherwise. Never the less, it's propoganda. So is Fox News.
>>>> 
>>>> You may learn something from listening to Fox News. And I can't tell people not to listen to them. That's really none of my business.  But the fact is that Fox News is absolutely, positively, definately not the conservative equivalent of CNN or NPR or CBS or the New York Times.
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> This is exactly why we have to be careful what we discuss here.  Your comments here are not going to be seen as fact by everyone, and inevitably
>>>>> someone is going to challenge them and sooner or later things get heated. That's not how it should be, but it is how it is on lists.  It is as firm a rule as the
>>>>> law of gravity.  .  While I don't trust any news source that feels they have to tell me that they are fair and balanced, I think that one has to realize that there
>>>>> are cases when any news source is not going to be objective.  I could say more about Fox and MSNBC, but it won't help us address the issues that face
>>>>> us as blind people.  Each of us has to make decisions about what we support in general, but it is important that we can learn here how various options
>>>>> affect us as blind people so we can act accordingly, and that means we have to get along well enough to be able to share information.
>>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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