[nfb-talk] Alright, from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 62

Ashley Bramlett bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Fri Dec 28 01:01:19 UTC 2012


Mark,
Thank you! thank you! This person talks about an social security crisis 
which I believe is a crisis. There is not enough money to keep paying people 
as their living longer and longer. But SSI is different and you get it based 
on income kind of like welfare checks.
So, if I  understand correctly, SSDI does come from SSA.

However, you said SSI does not. I had not even thought of where SSI came 
from
as I do not get it. But if it’s the general
treasury, then its not impacted by the fiscal cliff.

Thanks.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Tardif
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:23 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk 
Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62

Please, let me just give you a friendly correction here.  You keep talking
about an SSI crisis.  I think you mean regular Social Security benefits, or
even SSDI, (Social Security Disability Insurance), very different animals
from SSI, (Supplemental Security Income.  SSI is a program designed to help
those who are disabled or blind, but it is income-based, not based on you
putting anything into the system through years of employment.  In other
words, you don't have to have worked in order to receive SSI.  It is,
however, much more directly tied to any other income you may be receiving.
And whild the Social Security Administration administers SSI, my
understanding is that the money actually comes out of the general treasury,
not out of the Social Security trust fund.  People get those programs
confused, but I think if we are going to discuss them, it is important that
we know which programs we are talking about.  Just a friendly suggestion.

Mark Tardif
Nuclear arms will not hold you.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Todor Fassl
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:51 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk
Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62

In my opinion, when someone says something that is totally untrue, even in
passing, it is important to set the record straight. I don't really want to
argue about Fox News but I don't think we should just let it slide that some
people think Fox News is the equivalent of CNN. It's just not.

Anyway, lets talk about SSI and the national debt.

Did you know that the federal government actually comes out ahead on the
money it borrows right now? The interest rate the government pays is less
than the rate of inflation. You could argue that it encourages the
government to just keep on borrowing but what it proves is that there is no
debt crisis. If bankers were worried about the national debt, they wouldn't
be so anxious to loan money to the government. The only serious issue right
now is that in 20 to 30 years, there will be less money collected from
workers than what is needed to pay for SSI benefits for the retirees and the
disabled.

But that is not a crisis. First of all, that's a long way off. Secondly, its
a temporary problem caused by the "baby boom" right after WWII. Fifty to
sixty years from now, the ratio of recipients to payers goes back to a
manageable level.  And lastly, even the temporary problem can be managed by
doing things like raising the retirement age and putting a cap on the income
you can receive and still get benefits. It's silly for Warren Buffet to be
receiving SSI checks.

One thing we should not do is raise payroll taxes to buff up the Social
Security Trust Fund.  There really is no such thing. The reason is that if
we collect money today, where are we going to put it? You want to put that
money in the safest possible place, right? Wyou know what that is? T-Bills.
In other words, buy some of the national debt. So then we end up taxing
people to borrow money from ourselves -- which is stupid. As much as I
admire Daniel Patrick Moynahan, that was a dumb idea he came up with years
ago. If hhe were here today, he'd probably argue that he didn't expect the
government just to spend the money but what else can they do?  Maybe we
should have bought Canada with the money. I'll bet we could get a good price
for it today.

Anyway, there really is no SSI crisis.  The impending problem is really
fairly minor. And eventually, Social Security will reach an equlibrium
between payments and benefits. As our population continues to age, there
will always be a problem with the ratio of payers to recipients. But we'll
just have to keep raising the retirement age. And after all, that only makes
sense because the problem is caused by people living longer and longer.
Essentially, all we have to do is keep the average number of years that
people receive benefits constant.

From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: nfb-talk
Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62


> Totally agree here.  Many thanks Mike.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
> On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:01 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>
>> You're not getting it: there are those who consider CBS News and the NY 
>> Times as propaganda organs also and all the more shameful for not 
>> admitting it. Since we discuss our common connection, blindness, here and 
>> are loath to pay for a debating society here, especially when such 
>> debates do little more than generate controversy and division, it's 
>> better to keep to blindness.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>> sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:41, "Todor Fassl" <fassl.tod at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I mainly just want to nake the distinction between Fox News and 
>>> other news sources clear.  It's up to the reader to decide the 
>>> significance. It's not a matter of opinion that Fox News is trying to 
>>> persuade people to vote conservative. They say so themselves practically 
>>> every day. By definition, that makes them a propoganda outlet, not a 
>>> news source.
>>>
>>> There may be value in reading "The Daily Worker" from the Communist 
>>> Party. You may learn things you wouldn't have learned otherwise. Never 
>>> the less, it's propoganda. So is Fox News.
>>>
>>> You may learn something from listening to Fox News. And I can't tell 
>>> people not to listen to them. That's really none of my business.  But 
>>> the fact is that Fox News is absolutely, positively, definately not the 
>>> conservative equivalent of CNN or NPR or CBS or the New York Times.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" 
>>> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Alright,from another passionate liberal.RE: 
>>> nfb-talk Digest, Vol 55,Issue 62
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is exactly why we have to be careful what we discuss here.  Your 
>>>> comments here are not going to be seen as fact by everyone, and 
>>>> inevitably
>>>> someone is going to challenge them and sooner or later things get 
>>>> heated. That's not how it should be, but it is how it is on lists.  It 
>>>> is as firm a rule as the
>>>> law of gravity.  .  While I don't trust any news source that feels they 
>>>> have to tell me that they are fair and balanced, I think that one has 
>>>> to realize that there
>>>> are cases when any news source is not going to be objective.  I could 
>>>> say more about Fox and MSNBC, but it won't help us address the issues 
>>>> that face
>>>> us as blind people.  Each of us has to make decisions about what we 
>>>> support in general, but it is important that we can learn here how 
>>>> various options
>>>> affect us as blind people so we can act accordingly, and that means we 
>>>> have to get along well enough to be able to share information.
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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