[nfb-talk] language discussion

Anna Givens annajee82 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 23 23:28:51 UTC 2013 

Joshua, I believe that question would be part of a different discussion.  The way you know when the light changes is when the cars in front of you stop and the cars beside you start moving.  Haven't you crossed streets before?  I also do not live in a big city.  I live in Lincoln Nebraska.  That was my point... In smaller cities, there are not always people around to ask questions to.  

Anna E Givens

On Jul 23, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:

> You're right, Anna!
> I'm curious about the stop lights.
> How can we know when the light changes?
> I guess, when we hear the other vehickles start moving.
> I've never done any kind of traveling like this in big cities, so I don't know these things!
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Anna Givens [annajee82 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:03 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
> 
> Wow this discussion has gone all over the place....
> Yes there are plenty of gps devices on phones and not on phones that are quite accessible to blind pedestrians.
> I am not saying there is anything wrong with asking another person where you are.  While in a place lime Manhattan may be easy to find people to ask, we do not all live in such places.
> Many people have commented that we would struggle to find these signs.... I don't understand why.  If, for example, they were put right above the push button at a stop light, they would be right there where you have to touch the pole anyway.  Any cane can very easily find it anyway.  As you have to stop and wait at a corner for the light to change...there is the street sign.  Just like it is for all other people.
> Again, I am not even saying that this should necessarily happen, but I am disappointed with the lack of consideration it has been given in this discussion.  All we have to do is be creative and we can do whatever we want.
> 
> Anna E Givens
> 
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:24 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Why not? There are plenty of blind people, some of whom are on this
>> list (including myself,) who use I devices effectively. If you don't
>> prefer an iPhone or another iOS device because of the touchscreen,
>> that's fine; please don't assume, however, that you can't use it
>> because of the touchscreen. That is simply not true.
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've read the press releases about Idevices, but I wouldn't be able to use them, due to the touch screens.
>>> I'd prefer something that has actual buttons on it, that I can push, so I'll know what I'm doing.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:54 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>> 
>>> Josh,
>>> Um, there already are many gps options. Haven't you read the press releases
>>> from sendero group and they are even making one for I devices now.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:54 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>> 
>>> Why not make a GPS for pedestrians?
>>> Sighted folks have them when they're driving, so it would make sense to make
>>> one for blind people that walk, to cross the street!
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark Tardif
>>> [markspark at roadrunner.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:51 PM
>>> To: mike at michaelhingson.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>> 
>>> Also, this may very well be one of these times when, if it's available, it
>>> would actually be more independent to ask for help.  Sometimes we must ask
>>> for help, and not feel ashamed of it.  Is it going to be more independent to
>>> fish around looking with our hands for a street sign we hope is there or
>>> just quietly but assertively asking someone next to you waiting to cross
>>> what street this is, or if this is a particular street?  In this case,
>>> certainly in the big city with lots of pedestrians, I would opt for
>>> interacting with other people.  I've even done it in busy Manhattan, try it,
>>> it often works.  LOL.  Sorry, couldn't resist that last comment I actually
>>> think traveling in New York can be rather cool.
>>> 
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Hingson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:46 AM
>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>> 
>>> Right, but not having them high blocks some views, and they must then be
>>> found.  So, are you going to move around looking for a sign while a group of
>>> others are waiting to cross a street or are you going to ask for
>>> information?
>>> 
>>> Yes, sometimes no one will be around, but again, there are better ways which
>>> do not cause problems for anyone and which portray us in better lights.
>>> Also, are the signs set for taller people or shorter people?  That does make
>>> a difference.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael Hingson
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna Givens
>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 07:22 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>> 
>>> I agree.... Being able to read them from a distance would be the ideal
>>> situation.  But with a lack of idea as to how to do that.... It would at
>>> least be nice to be able to access the street name when one is lost or
>>> trying to confirm directions, rather than having to rely on people being on
>>> that street to ask them.  As there are push buttons on most stop light
>>> poles.  There could be a braille/raised letter sign indicating the street,
>>> or for that matter, any other information that people may like to have.
>>> Why does a street sign need to be above your head for blind poeple?  This
>>> makes no sense to me.  The only reason they are high up for sighted folks is
>>> so that they can be seen from a distance.  If we as blind people are using
>>> street signs by touch, there is no need for them to be high up on a pole.
>>> Not only is there no reason for them to be high up, but they would, by
>>> necessity, not be.  Evidently this has worked well in Australia.  They are
>>> just changing the signs, but they already had them.  Why not try it.  Seems
>>> reasonable to me.
>>> I am not saying it would or could or should happen.  After all, it comes
>>> down to how much it would cost.  But I do think it is an interesting idea to
>>> explore.
>>> Sighted people have access to signs that tell them where they are.... No
>>> equipment needed.
>>> Blind people do not have access to such a resource of that kind... I
>>> definitely think it is worth thinking about.
>>> 
>>> Anna E Givens
>>> 
>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Ray Foret jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Not only that, but, like I said, you'd have to reach your hand way way up.
>>> Now, I ask you, how's that going to look?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
>>> built-in!
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 8:55 PM, "Michael Hingson" <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> How are you going to find them?  How can you read them from any
>>>>> distance away so you know what to do before you get to the
>>>>> intersection and then have to locate the sign, possibly in a crowd of
>>>>> people?  While Braille is great, what we need is ALL the value of a
>>>>> street sign including distance detection which is better obtained through
>>> other means.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna
>>>>> Givens
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 06:36 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anna E Givens
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 8:20 PM, "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> They're impractical.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Anna Givens
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 5:14 PM
>>>>>> To: mike at michaelhingson.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't know much about it, but it is an interesting idea.  It might
>>>>>> be nice to have signs that blind people can read.  Sighted people
>>>>>> get them, why don't we?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anna E Givens
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:25 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>>>> <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ah, but you'd be surprised how different wording is in different
>>>>>> countries.
>>>>>>> I have never heard Australians say "orientated", but I guess it is
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:49 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: Interesting article on a new trial for
>>>>>>> signs
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Pet Peeve, ... orientate is not a word.  One would be oriented, or
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> oriented, orient him/herself to the surroundings, , but never
>>> orientated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d
>>>>>>> m gina
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: Interesting article on a new trial for
>>>>>>> signs
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have never seen a street sign, are they on the same pole as a
>>>>>>> light
>>>>>> pole?
>>>>>>> That would be most entertaining.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The following article was sent to me by a friend. Maybe the local
>>>>>>>> county government is considering placing Braille signage for
>>>>>>>> street
>>>>>> signs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I would like to know the federation thoughts on this topic.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin
>>>>>>>> Aging & Disability Services
>>>>>>>> Montgomery County Government
>>>>>>>> Department of Health & Human Services
>>>>>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor)
>>>>>>>> Rockville MD 20850
>>>>>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311)
>>>>>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal)
>>>>>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax)
>>>>>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm
>>>>>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other
>>>>>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the
>>>>>>>> intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and
>>>>>>>> destroy any copies of this material.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.guidedogs.com.au/news-and-events/news/20-06-2013/sydney
>>>>>>>> si de rs -with-impaired-vision-to-trial-new-braille-street-signs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Top of Form
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sydneysiders with impaired vision to trial new Braille street
>>>>>>>> signs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 20 June, 2013
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Walking around Sydney can be easy if you can see to read the
>>>>>>>> street signs, but imagine how you'd go if you were blind or vision
>>> impaired?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> With the incidence of vision loss increasing, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT
>>>>>>>> has welcomed a City of Sydney initiative to trial Braille and
>>>>>>>> tactile street signs that provide people who are blind or vision
>>>>>>>> impaired with information on where they are.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Today, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT clients who use guide dogs or long canes
>>>>>>>> to help them get around will participate in the trial at Circular
>>> Quay.
>>>>>>>> It will involve them testing and providing feedback on the
>>>>>>>> legibility of prototype street signs that provide location
>>>>>>>> information in Braille and tactile raised lettering.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Guide Dogs NSW/ACT clients and Community Education staff have
>>>>>>>> played a key role in the City of Sydney's consultation process on
>>>>>>>> the development of the new Braille and tactile street signs, which
>>>>>>>> will replace existing signage that has worn-out from use since
>>>>>>>> they were installed in the 1990s.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "The trial will ensure that the best possible Braille and tactile
>>>>>>>> street sign products and designs are used so that people who are
>>>>>>>> blind or vision impaired can easily and independently access the
>>>>>>>> City of
>>>>>>> Sydney,"
>>>>>>>> says Jennifer Moon, Community Education Coordinator for Guide Dogs
>>>>>>>> NSW/ACT.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "The Braille and tactile street signs are an important enhancement
>>>>>>>> to the specialized work our Orientation and Mobility Instructors do.
>>>>>>>> They provide training to people with impaired vision that enables
>>>>>>>> them to move around their environments safely and on their own."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> After the trial, it is proposed that a new network of Braille and
>>>>>>>> tactile street signs will be placed next to pedestrian crossing
>>>>>>>> buttons on traffic light poles through the CBD. They aim to give
>>>>>>>> pedestrians with vision loss the confidence that they will be able
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> 'orientate'
>>>>>>>> themselves throughout their journey and at their destination.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Guide dog handler Nicole Holmes (pictured above), who has been
>>>>>>>> part of the consultation process, knows only too well how
>>>>>>>> important it is to have the right Braille and tactile street signs in
>>> place.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "The ability to identify my location or where I am in such a busy
>>>>>>>> city like Sydney most importantly eases my stress while I'm trying
>>>>>>>> to negotiate the environment," says Nicole, whose vision is
>>>>>>>> impaired due to Retinopathy of Prematurity.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Braille and tactile signage is also useful in reassuring me that
>>>>>>>> I am heading in the right direction to my destination so it
>>>>>>>> complements the assistance that I get from my long cane or guide
>>>>>>>> dog. I'm really pleased that the City of Sydney is trialing the
>>>>>>>> Braille street signs because as vision impairment can differ
>>>>>>>> between people, we need to make sure the end product will be
>>>>>>>> useful for as many people with vision impairment as possible."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Research predicts that the number of people in NSW and the ACT
>>>>>>>> aged over
>>>>>>>> 40 with impaired vision is set to rise to 100,000 by 2020 .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Each year, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT provides free services to almost
>>>>>>>> 4,000 people of all ages and with any degree of vision loss that
>>>>>>>> might impact their ability to get around independently.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For more information about Guide Dogs NSW/Act's free services
>>>>>>>> visit www.guidedogs.com.au or call 1800 804 805.
>>>>>>>> ENDS
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> MEDIA: Please contact: Sally Edgar, 0413 753 241 or
>>>>>>>> media at guidedogs.com.au
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ABOUT GUIDE DOGS NSW/ACT
>>>>>>>> Guide Dogs NSW/ACT is the leading provider of guide dogs and
>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility services to enable people with impaired
>>>>>>>> vision to get around their communities independently. Services
>>>>>>>> include providing training and aids including long canes, guide
>>>>>>>> dogs and electronic travel devices such as talking GPS technology. .
>>>>>>>> Visit www.guidedogs.com.au, call 1800 804 805, or follow us on
>>>>>>>> Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/guidedogsnswact?ref=hl>  or
>>>>>>>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/GuideDogsNSWACT> .
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> nfb-talk:
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>>>>>>>> ob
>>>>>>>> il
>>>>>>>> e.net
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> v
>>>>>>> 
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