[nfb-talk] language discussion
Anna Givens
annajee82 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 23 23:46:48 UTC 2013
That pretty sums up and wraps up our discussion!!! Lol
Anna E Givens
On Jul 23, 2013, at 6:40 PM, "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net> wrote:
> However, what people are not identifying is that the signage doesn't need to
> be posted on the actual sign, but could be mounted on the pole instead, and
> I am assuming if it were something to ever be, at a distance of 60 inches
> from the ground to the middle of the sign per ADA ADAAG Title III. However,
> as many have chimed in about already, this is highly cost prohibitive, and
> it is not a requirement under ADA Title II or III.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
> Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:32 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>
> Anna,
> A blind person may or may not find the pole with the sign; the sign would
> have to be at a person's reach to work; signs for sighted people are very
> high up so pedestrians and drivers can see them.
>
>
> Apparently, they are trying it in Australia, I'm interested to see how it
> works there.
> Having sign info would make it easier to get around. I don't know how
> others know the street names, but I've had to just memorize them based on a
> sighted person telling me ahead of time.
>
> You are correct that you cannot always find a sighted person to ask. Some
> areas are quieter and you are unlikely to find a pedestrian for a while. Add
> to that that some areas have so many immigrants that you might see like 10
> people who don't know english and cannot help you.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anna Givens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:03 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>
> Wow this discussion has gone all over the place....
> Yes there are plenty of gps devices on phones and not on phones that are
> quite accessible to blind pedestrians.
> I am not saying there is anything wrong with asking another person where you
> are. While in a place lime Manhattan may be easy to find people to ask, we
> do not all live in such places.
> Many people have commented that we would struggle to find these signs.... I
> don't understand why. If, for example, they were put right above the push
> button at a stop light, they would be right there where you have to touch
> the pole anyway. Any cane can very easily find it anyway. As you have to
> stop and wait at a corner for the light to change...there is the street
> sign. Just like it is for all other people.
> Again, I am not even saying that this should necessarily happen, but I am
> disappointed with the lack of consideration it has been given in this
> discussion. All we have to do is be creative and we can do whatever we
> want.
>
> Anna E Givens
>
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:24 PM, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why not? There are plenty of blind people, some of whom are on this
>> list (including myself,) who use I devices effectively. If you don't
>> prefer an iPhone or another iOS device because of the touchscreen,
>> that's fine; please don't assume, however, that you can't use it
>> because of the touchscreen. That is simply not true.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I've read the press releases about Idevices, but I wouldn't be able
>>> to use them, due to the touch screens.
>>> I'd prefer something that has actual buttons on it, that I can push,
>>> so I'll know what I'm doing.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley
>>> Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:54 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>
>>> Josh,
>>> Um, there already are many gps options. Haven't you read the press
>>> releases from sendero group and they are even making one for I
>>> devices now.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:54 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>
>>> Why not make a GPS for pedestrians?
>>> Sighted folks have them when they're driving, so it would make sense
>>> to make one for blind people that walk, to cross the street!
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark Tardif
>>> [markspark at roadrunner.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:51 PM
>>> To: mike at michaelhingson.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>
>>> Also, this may very well be one of these times when, if it's
>>> available, it would actually be more independent to ask for help.
>>> Sometimes we must ask for help, and not feel ashamed of it. Is it
>>> going to be more independent to fish around looking with our hands
>>> for a street sign we hope is there or just quietly but assertively
>>> asking someone next to you waiting to cross what street this is, or
>>> if this is a particular street? In this case, certainly in the big
>>> city with lots of pedestrians, I would opt for interacting with other
>>> people. I've even done it in busy Manhattan, try it, it often works.
>>> LOL. Sorry, couldn't resist that last comment I actually think
>>> traveling in New York can be rather cool.
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Hingson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:46 AM
>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>
>>> Right, but not having them high blocks some views, and they must then
>>> be found. So, are you going to move around looking for a sign while
>>> a group of others are waiting to cross a street or are you going to
>>> ask for information?
>>>
>>> Yes, sometimes no one will be around, but again, there are better
>>> ways which do not cause problems for anyone and which portray us in
>>> better lights.
>>> Also, are the signs set for taller people or shorter people? That
>>> does make a difference.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna
>>> Givens
>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 07:22 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>
>>> I agree.... Being able to read them from a distance would be the
>>> ideal situation. But with a lack of idea as to how to do that.... It
>>> would at least be nice to be able to access the street name when one
>>> is lost or trying to confirm directions, rather than having to rely
>>> on people being on that street to ask them. As there are push
>>> buttons on most stop light poles. There could be a braille/raised
>>> letter sign indicating the street, or for that matter, any other
>>> information that people may like to have.
>>> Why does a street sign need to be above your head for blind poeple?
>>> This makes no sense to me. The only reason they are high up for
>>> sighted folks is so that they can be seen from a distance. If we as
>>> blind people are using street signs by touch, there is no need for
>>> them to be high up on a pole.
>>> Not only is there no reason for them to be high up, but they would,
>>> by necessity, not be. Evidently this has worked well in Australia.
>>> They are just changing the signs, but they already had them. Why not
>>> try it.
>>> Seems
>>> reasonable to me.
>>> I am not saying it would or could or should happen. After all, it
>>> comes down to how much it would cost. But I do think it is an
>>> interesting idea to explore.
>>> Sighted people have access to signs that tell them where they are....
>>> No equipment needed.
>>> Blind people do not have access to such a resource of that kind... I
>>> definitely think it is worth thinking about.
>>>
>>> Anna E Givens
>>>
>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 9:03 PM, Ray Foret jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not only that, but, like I said, you'd have to reach your hand way
>>>> way up.
>>> Now, I ask you, how's that going to look?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the
>>>> blind
>>> built-in!
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 8:55 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>> <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How are you going to find them? How can you read them from any
>>>>> distance away so you know what to do before you get to the
>>>>> intersection and then have to locate the sign, possibly in a crowd
>>>>> of people? While Braille is great, what we need is ALL the value
>>>>> of a street sign including distance detection which is better
>>>>> obtained through
>>> other means.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Anna Givens
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 06:36 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna E Givens
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 8:20 PM, "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They're impractical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Anna Givens
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 5:14 PM
>>>>>> To: mike at michaelhingson.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] language discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know much about it, but it is an interesting idea. It
>>>>>> might be nice to have signs that blind people can read. Sighted
>>>>>> people get them, why don't we?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna E Givens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:25 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>>>> <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, but you'd be surprised how different wording is in different
>>>>>> countries.
>>>>>>> I have never heard Australians say "orientated", but I guess it
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:49 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: Interesting article on a new trial
>>>>>>> for signs
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pet Peeve, ... orientate is not a word. One would be oriented,
>>>>>>> or would
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> oriented, orient him/herself to the surroundings, , but never
>>> orientated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> d m gina
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: Interesting article on a new trial
>>>>>>> for signs
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have never seen a street sign, are they on the same pole as a
>>>>>>> light
>>>>>> pole?
>>>>>>> That would be most entertaining.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The following article was sent to me by a friend. Maybe the
>>>>>>>> local county government is considering placing Braille signage
>>>>>>>> for street
>>>>>> signs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to know the federation thoughts on this topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin
>>>>>>>> Aging & Disability Services
>>>>>>>> Montgomery County Government
>>>>>>>> Department of Health & Human Services
>>>>>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850
>>>>>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311)
>>>>>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal)
>>>>>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax)
>>>>>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm
>>>>>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other
>>>>>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not
>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail
>>>>>>>> and destroy any copies of this material.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.guidedogs.com.au/news-and-events/news/20-06-2013/sydn
>>>>>>>> ey si de rs
>>>>>>>> -with-impaired-vision-to-trial-new-braille-street-signs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Top of Form
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sydneysiders with impaired vision to trial new Braille street
>>>>>>>> signs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 20 June, 2013
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Walking around Sydney can be easy if you can see to read the
>>>>>>>> street signs, but imagine how you'd go if you were blind or
>>>>>>>> vision
>>> impaired?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the incidence of vision loss increasing, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT
>>>>>>>> has welcomed a City of Sydney initiative to trial Braille and
>>>>>>>> tactile street signs that provide people who are blind or vision
>>>>>>>> impaired with information on where they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Today, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT clients who use guide dogs or long
>>>>>>>> canes to help them get around will participate in the trial at
>>>>>>>> Circular
>>> Quay.
>>>>>>>> It will involve them testing and providing feedback on the
>>>>>>>> legibility of prototype street signs that provide location
>>>>>>>> information in Braille and tactile raised lettering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guide Dogs NSW/ACT clients and Community Education staff have
>>>>>>>> played a key role in the City of Sydney's consultation process
>>>>>>>> on the development of the new Braille and tactile street signs,
>>>>>>>> which will replace existing signage that has worn-out from use
>>>>>>>> since they were installed in the 1990s.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The trial will ensure that the best possible Braille and
>>>>>>>> tactile street sign products and designs are used so that people
>>>>>>>> who are blind or vision impaired can easily and independently
>>>>>>>> access the City of
>>>>>>> Sydney,"
>>>>>>>> says Jennifer Moon, Community Education Coordinator for Guide
>>>>>>>> Dogs NSW/ACT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The Braille and tactile street signs are an important
>>>>>>>> enhancement to the specialized work our Orientation and Mobility
> Instructors do.
>>>>>>>> They provide training to people with impaired vision that
>>>>>>>> enables them to move around their environments safely and on their
> own."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After the trial, it is proposed that a new network of Braille
>>>>>>>> and tactile street signs will be placed next to pedestrian
>>>>>>>> crossing buttons on traffic light poles through the CBD. They
>>>>>>>> aim to give pedestrians with vision loss the confidence that
>>>>>>>> they will be able to
>>>>>>> 'orientate'
>>>>>>>> themselves throughout their journey and at their destination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guide dog handler Nicole Holmes (pictured above), who has been
>>>>>>>> part of the consultation process, knows only too well how
>>>>>>>> important it is to have the right Braille and tactile street
>>>>>>>> signs in
>>> place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The ability to identify my location or where I am in such a
>>>>>>>> busy city like Sydney most importantly eases my stress while I'm
>>>>>>>> trying to negotiate the environment," says Nicole, whose vision
>>>>>>>> is impaired due to Retinopathy of Prematurity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Braille and tactile signage is also useful in reassuring me
>>>>>>>> that I am heading in the right direction to my destination so it
>>>>>>>> complements the assistance that I get from my long cane or guide
>>>>>>>> dog. I'm really pleased that the City of Sydney is trialing the
>>>>>>>> Braille street signs because as vision impairment can differ
>>>>>>>> between people, we need to make sure the end product will be
>>>>>>>> useful for as many people with vision impairment as possible."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Research predicts that the number of people in NSW and the ACT
>>>>>>>> aged over
>>>>>>>> 40 with impaired vision is set to rise to 100,000 by 2020 .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Each year, Guide Dogs NSW/ACT provides free services to almost
>>>>>>>> 4,000 people of all ages and with any degree of vision loss that
>>>>>>>> might impact their ability to get around independently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For more information about Guide Dogs NSW/Act's free service
More information about the nFB-Talk
mailing list