[nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Mark Tardif markspark at roadrunner.com
Wed May 29 23:11:20 UTC 2013


I got my first cane in 1971, when I was fourteen and, like someone else 
mentioned, as part of a summer program which included 6 weeks of orientation 
and mobility.



Mark Tardif
Nuclear arms will not hold you.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Sheila Leigland
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:32 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots

I feel like I'm from the dark ages. lol. I didn't get my first cane
until i was eighteen. I went to public school growing up in my part of
California none that I knew used a cane at school. I'm totally blind and
looking back I'm amazed I didn't kill myself. I use a cane but now have
my second guide dog and love it but I know there will be times that I
need to use a cane so keep one on hand.
On 5/29/2013 8:08 AM, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) wrote:
> Terry and Listers,
>
> Back in the day, (sixties) not many blind kids learned to use the cane 
> until our teen age years. When we did, it was at a summer program at the 
> state school for the blind, and we had six weeks or so of O and M 
> training.  I took my cane with me to school, but often left it in my 
> locker (back then we had full sized ones at our school). When the halls 
> were crowded, etc, I learned that I had better take my cane with me to 
> avoid embarrassing encounters with other people, particularly girls. 
> (smile) So, I began using my cane all the time at school. I learned pretty 
> quickly that my cane allowed me to be independent, and explained to others 
> why I might smack into them once in a while. It didn't take long to 
> develop my current attitude that the cane is a symbol of independence, not 
> a badge of helplessness.  Of course, I won't go anywhere without my cane 
> now, and I do a fair bit of traveling for the job and sometimes for the 
> NFB.
>
> Glad to hear you have overcome the hesitancy about using your cane, and 
> don't feel awkward using it whenever and where ever you feel you need to. 
> I don't use the cane in my house, but certainly do in the office area at 
> work.
>
> Enjoy your travels.
>
> /s/
>
> Bennett Prows
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Powers, 
> Terry (NIH/NCI) [E]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:51 AM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
>   I had a mom who was over protective and I did not get cane training 
> until I was a tean.  This made me fearful of using a cane, like I was 
> publisizing that I was blind.  I improved some and then met a husband who 
> never wanted me to use a cane.  He never really accepted my blindness. 
> Now I am a free woman, again, the rest of my family accept me and my cane 
> and my ability to be independent.  If someone asks to assist me, I just 
> tell them I can follow them.  This usually happens with Metro Access.   I 
> had a bad fall, this winter, due to a bad curb cut and I find I use my 
> cane, more and more.  I only walk with out it in locations, I know well, 
> like in the office.  We just moved my office, so I walked around here for 
> 3 weeks with a cane.  There are parts of the building I still use a cane 
> in, because there is a lot of glass.
> I have a sister with a learning problem and she likes to put her hand on 
> my sholder and try to guide me.  It drives me crazy, but I try to put up 
> with it.  She also puts my cane together, for me.  I am fearful she will 
> get hurt or I might get hit, while she is doing it.  My other sister says, 
> she is only trying to help.  Thankfully, I have never had anyone ask me to 
> leave my cane, behind.  My cane is a part of me and others need to accept 
> me the way I am.
>
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gloria Whipple [mailto:glowhi at centurylink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:01 PM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> My family is still the same way. I cannot get it through their heads about 
> being independent using the cane.
>
> Gloria Whipple
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua 
> Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 15:16
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> If it was someone that had never met a blind person before, it would be 
> different.
> My problem is, that it's stupid family members that know better!
> You can fix ignorant all day long, but you can't fix stupid!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark Tardif 
> [markspark at roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:12 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> It's sometimes very hard and one has to grit the teeth to avoid saying 
> unpleasant things.  But having said that, I think we do a better job of 
> educating when we are gentle and sensitive to the fact that these people 
> just don't know and are probably nervous as heck at meeting what very well 
> might be their first blind person.  But it isn't always easy.
>
> Mark Tardif
> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:50 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> Me too!
> I can't stand ignorant people!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria Whipple 
> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:48 PM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> I also don't like it and I set them straight on what it is.
>
> Gloria Whipple
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua 
> Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:46
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria Whipple 
> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> Hi Misty,
>
> I agree with you on the GPS.
>
> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted guide 
> with them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. I don't 
> leave home without it.
>
> Gloria Whipple
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty 
> Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in kindergarten 
> or first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't feel right when I 
> don't
>
> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out things on 
> my
>
> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a 
> necessity.
> Misty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
>
>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>> Jacobson
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if
>> made simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and size that
>> really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A small device
>> that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a dog's leash to
>> detect objects and provide feedback would provide most of what a
>> guiding device would without the size and other complicating issues.
>> Why does it have to aim itself at all if the blind person were to
>> receive enough information to do the aiming from a smaller travel aid?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
>>> interested in any feedback members might have.
>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced
>>> portable processing power available to make a guide bot.
>> >From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
>>> efficient ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it
>>> but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The reason
>>> most projects are so difficult is that they are spending inordinate
>>> amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and
>>> fully "lead" the blind person.
>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
>>> becomes much simpler.
>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can simply
>>> lift it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a lightweight 
>>> device.
>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
>>> facing cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the
>>> device down the sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that
>>> you should go around,
>> to
>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left brake
>>> engages
>> and
>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.  The
>>> same thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a curb coming,
>>> both wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the
>>> braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need for
>>> motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is processing
>>> and braking.
>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what you
>>> want it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs
>>> to be through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.
>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and for
>>> scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve
>>> problems
>> that
>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to detect
>>> objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.  The thing
>>> that limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of slowing
>>> down while detecting an object and moving around it.
>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
>>> technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical financial
>>> boundaries of a marketable device.
>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh
>>> in on this and let me know.
>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of
>>> travel
>>> 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel
>>> 5.  finding doors
>>> 6.  locating up or down stairs
>>> 7.  locating elevators
>>> 8.  locating elevator buttons
>>> 9.  finding restrooms
>>> 10.  finding empty urinals
>>> 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms
>>> 12.  returning to an already found seat
>>> 13.  finding a bus stop
>>> 14.  finding a specific address
>>> 15.  following an indicated person
>>> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at
>>> mbullis at imagemd.org
>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>> Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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