[nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Sheila Leigland sleigland at bresnan.net
Thu May 30 00:14:09 UTC 2013 

af far as walking alone I walked aaround at school and church but didn't 
walk alone on streets.
On 5/29/2013 5:14 PM, Mark Tardif wrote:
> Our school campus was very easy to negotiate, and if I was traveling 
> in the city off campus, I was usually walking sighted guide.  I didn't 
> get permission to travel alone off campus until I was well into my 
> mobility training.
>
>
>
> Mark Tardif
> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> -----Original Message----- From: Anjelina
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:56 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
> Out of curiosity, for those who didn't use a cane growing up how did 
> you get around? Did you decide a guide or would you just walk around 
> in familiar areas alone?
>
> Sent from Anjelina's iPhone
>
> On May 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> I feel like I'm from the dark ages. lol. I didn't get my first cane 
>> until i was eighteen. I went to public school growing up in my part 
>> of California none that I knew used a cane at school. I'm totally 
>> blind and looking back I'm amazed I didn't kill myself. I use a cane 
>> but now have my second guide dog and love it but I know there will be 
>> times that I need to use a cane so keep one on hand.
>> On 5/29/2013 8:08 AM, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) wrote:
>>> Terry and Listers,
>>>
>>> Back in the day, (sixties) not many blind kids learned to use the 
>>> cane until our teen age years. When we did, it was at a summer 
>>> program at the state school for the blind, and we had six weeks or 
>>> so of O and M training.  I took my cane with me to school, but often 
>>> left it in my locker (back then we had full sized ones at our 
>>> school). When the halls were crowded, etc, I learned that I had 
>>> better take my cane with me to avoid embarrassing encounters with 
>>> other people, particularly girls. (smile) So, I began using my cane 
>>> all the time at school. I learned pretty quickly that my cane 
>>> allowed me to be independent, and explained to others why I might 
>>> smack into them once in a while. It didn't take long to develop my 
>>> current attitude that the cane is a symbol of independence, not a 
>>> badge of helplessness.  Of course, I won't go anywhere without my 
>>> cane now, and I do a fair bit of traveling for the job and sometimes 
>>> for the NFB.
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you have overcome the hesitancy about using your cane, 
>>> and don't feel awkward using it whenever and where ever you feel you 
>>> need to. I don't use the cane in my house, but certainly do in the 
>>> office area at work.
>>>
>>> Enjoy your travels.
>>>
>>> /s/
>>>
>>> Bennett Prows
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Powers, Terry (NIH/NCI) [E]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:51 AM
>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>>  I had a mom who was over protective and I did not get cane training 
>>> until I was a tean.  This made me fearful of using a cane, like I 
>>> was publisizing that I was blind.  I improved some and then met a 
>>> husband who never wanted me to use a cane.  He never really accepted 
>>> my blindness. Now I am a free woman, again, the rest of my family 
>>> accept me and my cane and my ability to be independent.  If someone 
>>> asks to assist me, I just tell them I can follow them.  This usually 
>>> happens with Metro Access.   I had a bad fall, this winter, due to a 
>>> bad curb cut and I find I use my cane, more and more.  I only walk 
>>> with out it in locations, I know well, like in the office.  We just 
>>> moved my office, so I walked around here for 3 weeks with a cane.  
>>> There are parts of the building I still use a cane in, because there 
>>> is a lot of glass.
>>> I have a sister with a learning problem and she likes to put her 
>>> hand on my sholder and try to guide me.  It drives me crazy, but I 
>>> try to put up with it.  She also puts my cane together, for me.  I 
>>> am fearful she will get hurt or I might get hit, while she is doing 
>>> it.  My other sister says, she is only trying to help.  Thankfully, 
>>> I have never had anyone ask me to leave my cane, behind.  My cane is 
>>> a part of me and others need to accept me the way I am.
>>>
>>> Terry Powers
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gloria Whipple [mailto:glowhi at centurylink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:01 PM
>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> My family is still the same way. I cannot get it through their heads 
>>> about being independent using the cane.
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 15:16
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> If it was someone that had never met a blind person before, it would 
>>> be different.
>>> My problem is, that it's stupid family members that know better!
>>> You can fix ignorant all day long, but you can't fix stupid!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark 
>>> Tardif [markspark at roadrunner.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:12 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> It's sometimes very hard and one has to grit the teeth to avoid 
>>> saying unpleasant things.  But having said that, I think we do a 
>>> better job of educating when we are gentle and sensitive to the fact 
>>> that these people just don't know and are probably nervous as heck 
>>> at meeting what very well might be their first blind person.  But it 
>>> isn't always easy.
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:50 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Me too!
>>> I can't stand ignorant people!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria 
>>> Whipple [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:48 PM
>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> I also don't like it and I set them straight on what it is.
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:46
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
>>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria 
>>> Whipple [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
>>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Hi Misty,
>>>
>>> I agree with you on the GPS.
>>>
>>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted 
>>> guide with them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. 
>>> I don't leave home without it.
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Misty Dawn Bradley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in 
>>> kindergarten or first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't 
>>> feel right when I don't
>>>
>>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out 
>>> things on my
>>>
>>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a 
>>> necessity.
>>> Misty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>>>
>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>>>> Jacobson
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if
>>>> made simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and size that
>>>> really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A small device
>>>> that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a dog's leash to
>>>> detect objects and provide feedback would provide most of what a
>>>> guiding device would without the size and other complicating issues.
>>>> Why does it have to aim itself at all if the blind person were to
>>>> receive enough information to do the aiming from a smaller travel aid?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
>>>>> interested in any feedback members might have.
>>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced
>>>>> portable processing power available to make a guide bot.
>>>> >From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
>>>>> efficient ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it
>>>>> but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's. The reason
>>>>> most projects are so difficult is that they are spending inordinate
>>>>> amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and
>>>>> fully "lead" the blind person.
>>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
>>>>> becomes much simpler.
>>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can simply
>>>>> lift it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a 
>>>>> lightweight device.
>>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
>>>>> facing cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the
>>>>> device down the sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that
>>>>> you should go around,
>>>> to
>>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left brake
>>>>> engages
>>>> and
>>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.  The
>>>>> same thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a curb 
>>>>> coming,
>>>>> both wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the
>>>>> braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need 
>>>>> for
>>>>> motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is 
>>>>> processing
>>>>> and braking.
>>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what 
>>>>> you
>>>>> want it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs
>>>>> to be through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.
>>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and for
>>>>> scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve
>>>>> problems
>>>> that
>>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve. That is, it would have to detect
>>>>> objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast. The thing
>>>>> that limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of slowing
>>>>> down while detecting an object and moving around it.
>>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
>>>>> technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical 
>>>>> financial
>>>>> boundaries of a marketable device.
>>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh
>>>>> in on this and let me know.
>>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of
>>>>> travel
>>>>> 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
>>>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel
>>>>> 5.  finding doors
>>>>> 6.  locating up or down stairs
>>>>> 7.  locating elevators
>>>>> 8.  locating elevator buttons
>>>>> 9.  finding restrooms
>>>>> 10.  finding empty urinals
>>>>> 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms
>>>>> 12.  returning to an already found seat
>>>>> 13.  finding a bus stop
>>>>> 14.  finding a specific address
>>>>> 15.  following an indicated person
>>>>> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at
>>>>> mbullis at imagemd.org
>>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>> nfb-talk:
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>>>>>
>>>>> 0vis
>>> i
>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>>
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